15 January 2014 | 82 comments (82 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Grillo and immigration (4.00 / 4)

Latest from M5S. Two Senators from M5S had proposed repealing the law criminalising illegal immigration. Grillo attacked them because ~~it undermined his authority~~ it wasn't in their electoral program, and announced an online vote by party members starting later that day, and lasting a few hours only. He lost:

Alla fine gli iscritti certificati al Movimento 5 Stelle hanno espresso il loro parere, così come richiesto da Beppe Grillo, sulla depenalizzazione del 'reato di clandestinità': 15.839 hanno votato per la sua abrogazione, 9.093 per il mantenimento. I votanti sono stati 24.932 sugli 80.383 aventi diritto. Tradotto: sarà questa la posizione ufficiale che i 'cittadini' pentastellati porteranno domani a Palazzo Madama quando sarà il momento di votare l'emendamento.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 07:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (4.00 / 4)

I'd say that is good all around.

The senators are championing a good cause, Grillo is challenging them on good grounds - they are representing their party and program, not their own opinions - and with a good conflict resolution mechanism. And the membership voted for the good cause.

As long as Grillo doesn't flip out from being over-ruled it is also good for M5S as it shows for all involved that it is a collaborative effort, not a one man show.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 07:39:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 1)

A sudden referendum with no advance warning is hardly a good conflict resolution mechanism, even if it worked in this case.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 07:46:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 0)

If it was sudden (which all depends on how online referendums are used in the M5S), well yes then that was bad.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:23:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 1)

That's not sudden: the thing with the two senators happened months ago.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:32:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 1)

Right: October 2013.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:38:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 0)

it is good, the MV5 worked around beppe's 'feet-of-clay moment', which ironically was from fear of losing rightish votes, but this decision will pull in more centre and c-left.
the average age of the movement is younger than beppe and this is a sign of those remnants of old paradigm thinking beppe is prone to.

sincerity trumps strategery

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 03:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 0)

Yeah, but I'm not sure the movement can survive without Grillo and it's not comforting to know he has such ugly reflexes.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 06:27:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 0)

Yes, but the article claims that the vote was arranged at very short notice.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 04:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 0)

What prompted the vote, then? There must have been internal contestation of Grillo's xenophobia by other M5S parlliamentarians.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 15th, 2014 at 06:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 1)

I would be very surprised indeed if it were genuine personal xenophobia on the part of Grillo.

That makes it worse : it's well known, for example, that Jean-Marie Le Pen is not the slightest bit racist personally, perfectly urbane etc. But racism is his stock in trade.

I fear that Grillo decided that a bit of xenophobia was necessary to his electoral appeal. Which makes him a genuine populist rabble-rouser. Time to outgrow him.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Thu Jan 16th, 2014 at 04:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grillo and immigration (none / 1)

Oh, right: the vote was prompted by the need to actually vote in the parliament on the amendment

Tradotto: sarà questa la posizione ufficiale che i 'cittadini' pentastellati porteranno domani a Palazzo Madama quando sarà il momento di votare l'emendamento.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jan 16th, 2014 at 05:11:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

15 January 2014 | 82 comments (82 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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