On Minority Rights and on Beliefs | 546 comments (546 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Some comments about headscarves : (none / 1)

If so, why make it even more obvious by supporting competitive consumption?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 12:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How am I supporting competitive consumption?

My question was a genuine question, not a challenge, by the way. I have no experience with school uniforms. Pupils don't meet each other only when in the classroom. Don't they get a pretty clear idea of the relative wealth or poverty of the children around them?

by Katrin on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 01:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 1)

That's not so true in an urban school with a big or mixed catchment area.

Strong views on something you have no experience with...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 02:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

"No experience" with school uniforms, but of course I know what uniforms are. That's why I am shuddering.

by Katrin on Thu Feb 6th, 2014 at 05:10:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (4.00 / 2)

And religious garb is not a uniform?

This is not a rhetorical question: The Jacobin opposition to religious garb in schools is, I think, very much a dislike of seeing private groups maintain a uniformed presence in institutions that the state considers its turf.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 6th, 2014 at 03:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

By "religious garb" do you mean uniform clothing that an organisation prescribes for its members like monks' habits, or do you mean covering the body to the extent a religion demands? The two are different, and only the former would be a uniform.

by Katrin on Thu Feb 6th, 2014 at 04:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (4.00 / 2)

The former, of course.

But for the purpose of the present discussion, this is a distinction without difference - the religious prescription in question goes quite a bit beyond "keep hair covered" and well into the territory of specifying the nature and appearance of the garment used to cover it.

(It should go without saying that the Jacobin view on private uniforms in public institutions is hypocritical as long as business suits are tolerated attire in parliament. There can be no real doubt that the business suit is a uniform of a private group actively hostile to the state.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 6th, 2014 at 04:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 1)

Because what inevitably happens is 'I got £200 trainers for Christmas and you didn't' competitions.

Incidentally, I find it completely bizarre that you're against school uniforms, but for religious uniforms.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 02:31:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

*Choice* (none / 0)

What is bizarre in that?

by Katrin on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 02:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

And when you are in uniform in school you can't say: 'I got £200 trainers for Christmas and you didn't'? Hm. How odd.

by Katrin on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 02:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

Of course you can, and uniform (that I lived with for years without liking it) does not ensure absolute... uniformity.

It does however provide a general sense that the individual schoolchild is one of a group of similar people of equal value.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 03:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 1)

Which - you eventually realise as an adult - is one of the better outcomes.

Depending on the school, it can mean equally valued or equally devalued. Still - at least there's some notion of equality there.

The opposite is true for religious wear, which has the clear implication that the wearer is somehow either superior or inferior to those who chose to wear ordinary clothes, depending who you ask.

Just like any other uniform, including the ubiquitous business suit.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 6th, 2014 at 05:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

That's exactly what I saw when school uniforms (by that time nothing more than blue coats donned atop normal street clothes) were abolished in Hungary while I was still going to school. Which made me re-think the issue: when the uniforms were first abolished, I was happy, not because of any perceived authoritarianism but because wearing them seemed a hassle. Note that pioneer uniforms (which were to be worn during public celebrations) were another matter entirely.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Feb 5th, 2014 at 02:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On Minority Rights and on Beliefs | 546 comments (546 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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