On Minority Rights and on Beliefs | 546 comments (546 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Dispassionate enough? (4.00 / 4)

This whole debate is about framing. Katrin wants to argue in a religious frame. Most of the rest of the debaters want to argue in secular frames.

So the disagreement is not actually on the headscarf ban. The headscarf ban arguments expose that there is a difference at the level of frames.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:20:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (none / 1)

Migeru:

Katrin wants to argue in a religious frame.

I want the freedom to argue in a religious frame. I don't usually do so (for the reasons ComradeFrana cites: it distracts from the message), but I don't want to be sorted in the reactionary corner when I do.

by Katrin on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:31:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (4.00 / 2)

Into which corners have you sorted people who don't want to reason in a religious frame, and a fortiori don't want to allow civil law to be based on religious frames?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:33:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (none / 0)

hmm OK, so you are claiming the right to determine how people are allowed to react to your religious views.

Without claim religious privilege...

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:43:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (none / 0)

I can't determine how people react to my religious or other views. But I am free to make my own judgement of such reactions when I meet them, am I not?

You are right in one point: the topic has been in the discussion before, and always highly emotional. I have tried a few things, including avoiding all threads where the topic religion cropped up, which wasn't alyways nice. The heap under the carpet then became too big, and that's why I made this diary. The alternative would have been to leave ET

by Katrin on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 11:00:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (4.00 / 3)

Implying that nobody's going to come out of this discussion with a changed frame. They may change their mind on a whole variety of other topics, including exceptionally on the headsvarf ban. But they will rationalise their change of mind within their frame.

Changes of frame are as rare as religious conversions.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (4.00 / 2)

As someone who went through one and back again, I'd say a religious conversion is one heck of a change of frame.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:34:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dispassionate enough? (none / 1)

Eurogreen was flippant when I said in an earlier comment that religion is deeply personal. But it really is. It's a more closely held frame than a political ideology.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 7th, 2014 at 10:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

On Minority Rights and on Beliefs | 546 comments (546 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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