to atheists religious talk shuts down their comprehension circuits, if you need religion for your argument it means you don't have one.

i happen to think you do, but your bringing religion into the discussion makes your goal of communication to anyone  more distant rather than closer.

Actually I have not very often brought religion into the discussion. Once, rejecting the notion that everyone here is an atheist. No, I am not. I was very shocked at the arrogant reaction. I have since tried to avoid all threads where any religion played any role, often with gnashed teeth, because I would have had something to say, but knew how it would be received. It is not true that I use religion for my argument, though. I just don't want to have to hide the fact that I have one, and I strongly object to all attempts to outlaw visible religiosity. The treatment a religious contributor on ET tends to get is a minor nuisance compared to the danger European Muslims are in though. Muslims are the victims of discriminatory laws and of a real wave of hate crime, but on ET they are discussed as oppressors, even if that oppression is only their clothes that insult the eye. I value ET enormously, including contributions of those who in the question of religion oppose me most. I cannot put up with how a blind eye is turned to this injustice and danger though, because it doesn't fit their worldview.

melo:

there's no extra weight behind anyone's opinion, their affiliations or belief-systems notwithstanding.

That's a good idea. So far I have missed that spirit here. I know I have made many mistakes on this thread, but don't think I hadn't tried to avoid them.

I cannot put up with suggestions Muslims hide part of their personality if they don't want to be persecuted. Or that all Muslims had to tolerate being stereotyped as long as the government of Saudi Arabia doesn't respect freedom. And I cannot put up with suggestions that personal freedom is irrelevant with the problems humanity faces. Whatever I say on the topic here is being taken as if it was exotic and only explicable because I have a belief too. There aren't many options thinkable to get out of that situation, are there?