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The problem about your "pleated skirts" mantra is that it is meaningless to me. I now imagine that if I went to a high school in your region, I could identify the girls who are repressed by their Christian parents? Is that right?

Parents who teach their daughters that their place in life is a subordinated one, may choose to impose certain clothes,

Good to see we agree on that!
but these clothes are only a symptom

They are clearly understood as such. My point is that it is legitimate to ban such "symptoms" from school, because they are harmful to a girl's development.

Or is a constant reminder of one's subordinate status a good thing? I fear it may provoke cognitive dissonance, in a school environment where a subordinate status with respect to males is neither required nor approved of.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 11th, 2014 at 09:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you deny that there are "western" dress codes that are imposed where parents impose certain--subordinate--role models? From the pleated skirts of my childhood (and long afterwards. The shop that catered for parents like mine changed ownership in 1998) to the pink Princess-stuff or Barbie stuff: the same thing, only more varied according to class.
eurogreen:
Or is a constant reminder of one's subordinate status a good thing?

You don't take the point that the ban of clothes typical of immigrants is a reminder of immigrants' subordinate status, do you? The debate, and the ban,is only about the headscarf of the immigrants, not the clothes the natives use for similar purposes. I note that the moment these clothes come into the focus you try the next externalisation "girls who are repressed by their Christian parents?" No, girls who are repressed by their "western culture" parents, and who, depending on class background, can be identified by their clothes from pleated skirts to Barbie stuff. I should think a ban on immigrants' clothes in a school environment where a subordinate status with respect to natives is neither required nor approved of.

by Katrin on Tue Feb 11th, 2014 at 10:57:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't take the point that the ban of clothes typical of immigrants is a reminder of immigrants' subordinate status, do you?

A reminder to whom? Not to an independent observer, because the girls become indistinguishable from their classmates.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 11th, 2014 at 11:15:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm. No visible difference between native French and immigrants? Really not?
by Katrin on Tue Feb 11th, 2014 at 04:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(I wondered if you'd take the bait...)

A large plurality of French Moslems of North African origin are Berbers, i.e. of European rather than Arab type. A large proportion of the others fall well within the range of skin tones etc of "native" French people. Add to that the fact that, in places where some women of North African origin wear headscarves, there are also large numbers of non-headscarf wearing North African women.

So, indistinguishable from their classmates. Really.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Feb 13th, 2014 at 07:40:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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