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the attempts to resurrect religious civil law "in order to accommodate immigrants"
What are these attempts?
Also, the Netherlands reintroduced sex segregation in public schools in order to encourage schooling of muslim girls (Bjinse can correct me if I'm wrong). A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
Nowhere in the lecture does Williams call for the implementation of sharia law - thoughthis has become the default assumption underlying the febrile controversy the talk and its accompanying media coverage almost instantly generated. Rather, heasks how it might be possible for the civil law to accommodate some of the legal procedures by which Muslim communities in Britain have traditionally regulatedtheir relationships and financial affairs, while safeguarding the equality and human rights afforded by modern law for vulnerable individuals (particularly women) within those communities. He reiterates several times that it would be important to ensure that "no `supplementary' jurisdiction could have the power to deny access to the rights granted to other citizens or to punish its members for claiming those rights." He also points out that there is already provision in English law for Jewish and Christian communities to have some autonomy over the governance of their religious affairs, without thereby putting themselves outside the law
the furious response to the archbishop's comments reveals a great deal about the hostility and ignorance with regard to Islam which forms a potent undercurrent in Britain's ostensibly multi-cultural society. It is also a reminder - if such reminders are needed - that this is a woefully anti-intellectual society, fed on a daily diet of the tabloid press and reality television, and apparently incapable of engaging in intelligent public debate about significant issues. Serious journalists who ought to know better have derided Williams for being too scholarly; the widespread belief seems to be that he has only himself to blame if people failed to grasp the subtleties of his argument. The logic of this message is that public figures must "dumbdown" or be damned.
What exactly are your objections to Williams' proposal?
I am still of the opinion ALL these religious courts should be abolished.
Rowan Williams and sharia law | openDemocracy
He also points out that there is already provision in English law for Jewish and Christian communities to have some autonomy over the governance of their religious affairs, without thereby putting themselves outside the law.
From what I can see, Williams only referred to Orthodox Jewish practice, though. On that, here is a source from the time of the controversy:
BBC NEWS | UK | Religious courts already in use
...Jewish courts are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries.> British Jews, particularly the orthodox, will frequently turn to their own religious courts, the Beth Din, to resolve civil disputes, covering issues as diverse as business and divorce....Both sides in a dispute must be Jewish, obviously, and must have agreed to have their case heard by the Beth Din. Once that has happened, its eventual decision is binding. English law states that any third party can be agreed by two sides to arbitrate in a dispute, and in this case the institutional third party is the Beth Din.
...Jewish courts are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries.>
British Jews, particularly the orthodox, will frequently turn to their own religious courts, the Beth Din, to resolve civil disputes, covering issues as diverse as business and divorce.
...Both sides in a dispute must be Jewish, obviously, and must have agreed to have their case heard by the Beth Din. Once that has happened, its eventual decision is binding. English law states that any third party can be agreed by two sides to arbitrate in a dispute, and in this case the institutional third party is the Beth Din.
Also, the Netherlands reintroduced sex segregation in public schools in order to encourage schooling of muslim girls (Bjinse can correct me if I'm wrong).
As far as I know, this hasn't happened. I've never heard about this, although that doesn't mean much. Google and a search through the Dutch newspaper database don't render any hits either. There is always the off-chance it hasn't been big in the news and politicians haven't heard about it, although that'd be doubtful, considering the topic.
Secondly, such policy doesn't make immediate sense to me but when dealing with politicians, that doesn't mean much either. But if I recall the statistics correctly, Muslim girls are doing much better in the Dutch education system than Muslim boys, plus the past years have seen an overall improvement for both sexes - although it's still far from optimal.
The co-ed schools story may have been distorted in the foreign press. A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
Hardly worth a sizzle.
Provided proper measures are taken to prevent such informal arbitration from evolving into a full-blown parallel judicial system, there is nothing inherently wrong with this.
In other words, I'm perfectly fine with consenting adults deciding to use Sharia law in informal arbitration, and have it legally recognized to the same extent that such arbitration would be legally recognized if it were based on Klingon law, Bob the Bartender's say-so, or indeed any other mutually agreed standard.
Crucially, however, this should include the right to reject that standard at any time and for any reason, and appeal any disputes outstanding after such a rejection to a court of law.
- Jake Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
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