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This would be a No True Scotsman argument. I'd say her version of Christianity is different from your religion. You protest being put in the same corner with discriminating religionists, but it's the other extreme to claim that the religion of those religionists whose views you dislike isn't a proper religion (but merely the mis-interpretation of a proper religion). *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Personally, I grew up with religious diversity, and intuitively accept it as the norm : in New Zealand, all of the British Protestant denominations, plus catholicism, were represented, with Anglicanism being the mainstream but by no means hegemonic (other than a handful of Jews, I knew no non-Christians until Buddhism, Baha'i, Hari Krishna and other such hippy shit became fashionable in the 70s). It was undoubtedly a "Christian" nation, but not dogmatically so.
For my own part, I was brought up without religious indoctrination from my parents, which led to me being defined by others, to my amusement, as an "atheist".
As an adult, I discovered that most countries have a hegemonic religion with centralised doctrine that has, or has recently had, strong influence over professed moral standards and laws. This is unconscionable to me, and my considered conclusion is that it is necessary to put a muzzle on religious influence in the public sphere. It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
- Jake Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
Well - that's progress, I guess.
Now, for extra credit, tell us which religious point of view is more common - the repressive one, or the liberal one?
And what do you think is the position of the majority in our societies? The more liberal or the more repressive one?
And that's the time where several of you agreed to abolish the human rights of Muslim women, because you are no Muslim women and you are so very sure that your rights will survive.
I did not say "religious point of view". I said "two opinions inside religion". What is unclear in my words?
Er - what? So there are two religious points of view instead of one? Or five? Or fifteen million?
And that changes the argument how?
you are so very sure that your rights will survive.
It's precisely because I'd like some vestige of my remaining rights to survive that I want to keep authoritarianisms of all kinds as far away from politics as possible.
Because when that doesn't happen, that always works out so well for everyone.
The Swedish church (formerly state-church, now formally independent but very much dominant) has at least the last ten years been slightly less liberal on social issues then the state and a fair bit more socialistic on economic isues. The new top dog is even female, which the state has not for almost 300 years. Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
I'm finding it hard to think of any situation from history where an established church has acted progressively in opposition to the state without prior prompting from secular philosophies.
There have been occasional contributions from radical dissenters (e.g. Quaker abolitionists). But even then, there's state precedence - in that instance from Spanish law in the 16th century.
But it doesn't really matter to my point: It is not an active and important part of the current left-wing renaissance in Latin America. The core legitimizing narratives of the current movements pay very little if any homage to it, and the demographics include far more indigenous movements (someone like Evo Morales is completely out of character as a figurehead for a Liberation Theology dominated political movement).
Well, for most of the 20th century smaller churches in Sweden were allied with the liberals against the privileges of the state church.
But for the Church of Sweden I think the formative thing is that it has been run for a long time as a civil service in a secular society. Church councils are elected in proportional elections with most of the main parties represented. The church has a higher percentage of visible nutters then the rest of society, but dominated by pretty reasonable people who have chosen a people-oriented career in a non-profit organisation. Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
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