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ThatBritGuy:
Exactly. As usual Katrin simply has no answer to the empirically observable point that religious morality means whatever some group of followers want it to mean.

If you want to hate on gays - god agrees with you. If you want to accept gays into the church - oh, look, god also agrees with you.

Positions of the churches evolve. Churches have that in common with parties, trade unions, the law, etc., even with most individuals. If you don't like that, Stalinism might be the answer.

ThatBritGuy:

When you do this you can no longer have a debate among human equals, because one party is claiming that their point of view is super-human, and you, as a mere human, have no valid opinion on it. (Who are you to argue with god, or the markets?)

Er, you have just complained that churches' positions on gay marriage and the like evolve, sometimes in very very fierce debates. Now you complain of the opposite. Can't make up your mind, eh?

by Katrin on Mon Feb 3rd, 2014 at 06:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But, well, those very fierce debates are still based on claims of super-human positions, no? You feel something is right, and to support it, you for example look for passages in the Bible that can be interpreted along the lines of your view, or look to re-interpret passages used by reactionaries.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Feb 4th, 2014 at 07:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Positions of the churches evolve.

So much for revealed wisdom, eh?

Can't make up your mind, eh?

No, I'm perfectly happy with the idea that religion is the intellectual, philosophical, emotional and spiritual equivalent of genital mutilation, and that if you're looking for a consistently positive moral position, religion is the last place you're going to find one.

But then you've just agreed to that last point yourself, so I have no idea why we're even debating the social value of arbitrary inconsistent ethics that pretend to be divinely revealed.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Feb 4th, 2014 at 08:35:20 AM EST
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Sure. If you look for a ready made ethics that you can be spoon fed with without an effort of your own, Christian ethics must be disappointing for you. If you look for a framework or ethical foundation that must be filled with life, that's more what I mean. It adds one angle more to left and emancipatory politics. I have absolutely no missionary zeal, if that is what you are afraid of, and what makes you aggressive. I just don't see why ET must be a place that excludes positions of progressive politics with a religious background and treats all religion as reactionary.
by Katrin on Tue Feb 4th, 2014 at 10:38:02 AM EST
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