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The melting away of state authority is what makes revolutions succeed. It is unpredictable and sudden, and normally it happens when the regime has to use deadly force on the population, either because orders are refused or as a reaction to orders being carried out.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 07:52:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ukraine MPs vote speaker interim president - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

Viktor Yanukovych has even been rejected by his own political group, the Party of Regions. They published this on their website.

Dear compatriots

We are experiencing one of the most difficult and tragic periods in the history of our country. Ukraine was deceived and robbed but even that is nothing compared to the grief faced by dozens of Ukrainian families who lost their loved ones on both sides of the confrontation. Ukraine betrayed, and people pushed their foreheads. All responsibility for this lies with Yanukovych and his immediate environment.

We, the Party of Regions faction in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine (parliament) and our party members, strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to the loss of human life, an empty treasury, huge debts, shame in the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the world, bringing our country was on the brink, threats split and the loss of national sovereignty. Any attempt to influence the situation, to persuade the president had not been heard.

Party of Regions faction represents the interests of more than ten million voters in Ukraine and more than one million members.

Parties of regions - is the normal, hardworking people who love their land, their people, It includes industrialists, scientists, workers, doctors and teachers.

We have come to parliament to serve Ukraine and its people.

Party of Regions said that difference of opinion, and sometimes - differences in ideology are not an obstacle to work together for the benefit of Ukraine. There are different views, but we have one goal - a united, strong and independent Ukraine.

We condemn the cowardly flight of Yanukovych.

We condemn the betrayal.

We condemn the criminal orders , which framed the common people, soldiers and officers.

But attempts at total intimidation and lynching, to destabilize the situation in the regions is not acceptable in a democratic society.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 09:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hahaha...if it's not tragic it would be really funny...
They already started same all propaganda language preparing them selves for next election. They know if they are not elected they are done and gone. But do they really think they can get their voters back?
It is not about Yanukovych...he is scum like Timoshenko and all the others...
It is (like always) going to be a matter of deal between big players ( Russia and USA..."fuck the Eu", haha) and they, people are only important to their local politicians who will be here and there exploited by these big players...It is going to be interesting these days...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 09:12:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Under the constitution of the Ukraine, the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of VI Convocation would be in line to succeed President Vanukovich. That would be Volodymyr Rybak, unless mob rule decided otherwise. Most similar to the overthrow of Egypt's president Morsi, we wont call it a coup d'état.

US: Russia involvement in Ukraine 'grave mistake'

(ITV) - US President Barack Obama's national security adviser said it would be a "grave mistake" for Russia to send military forces into Ukraine and that it is not in the interest of Russia, Europe or the US to see Ukraine split apart.

Speaking on NBC's Meet the Press, Susan Rice was asked about a possible scenario in which Russia would send forces into Ukraine to restore a government more friendly to Moscow.

"That would be a grave mistake," Rice said. "It's not in the interests of Ukraine or of Russia or of Europe or the United States to see a country split. It's in nobody's interest to see violence return and the situation escalate.



'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 12:14:47 PM EST
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<blockquoute>The melting away of state authority is what makes revolutions succeed. </blockquoute>

And who will put Humpty Dumpty back together again?

For better or worse the nice thing about the government knowing that they have authority is that they can achieve compliance among the population without resorting to violence.  When a state depends upon physical violence in order to enforce its authority, that gets very expensive, very quick.  In so many ways.  

The problem with this idea of "peaceful" revolution by denying the authority of the state, is that in the end it destroys the very thing that a revolution is designed to capture: the authority of the state.  

Does anyone really believe that the end result in Ukraine is going to be a state capable of enforcing its authority through issuing laws alone?

At best, we have a brutal crackdown with the police doing the breaking of bones designed to make people obey the new laws that come out of Kiev. So Egypt.  New boss, same as the old boss.  At worst, we end up with a failed state, or civil war.  So Syria.

We really need some sort of secular version of Just War Theory for would be revolutionaries. Probability of success, proportionality, most importantly that the action is taken as a last resort should be criteria here. The Maidan violated an accord that had been reached by the opposition, because they didn't like the terms. What sort of assurance do we have that they won't do the same if they don't like the new government.  

The Beatles were right. We all want to change the world, but when you talk about destruction, you can count me out.  There is a time and a place for all things, but I'm sorry when you talk about revolution, you should be damn sure that what your fighting for is worth dying, and killing for.  I'm not convinced that was the case in the Ukraine.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 04:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A righteous case, well argued

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 04:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The melting away of state authority is what makes revolutions succeed.
And who will put Humpty Dumpty back together again?

For better or worse the nice thing about the government knowing that they have authority is that they can achieve compliance among the population without resorting to violence.  When a state depends upon physical violence in order to enforce its authority, that gets very expensive, very quick.  In so many ways.  

The problem with this idea of "peaceful" revolution by denying the authority of the state, is that in the end it destroys the very thing that a revolution is designed to capture: the authority of the state.  

Does anyone really believe that the end result in Ukraine is going to be a state capable of enforcing its authority through issuing laws alone?

You know better than this. The military and the police have not been disbanded and they will be loyal to the parliament and the people will accept their law-enforcement if they accept the legitimacy of parliament.

The new government will have to deal with the Right Blobk militia.

The revolution is not over yet, in any case. Impeaching the President is just an early stage because so many thinkgs remain in flux.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 09:16:45 AM EST
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Migeru:
The military and the police have not been disbanded and they will be loyal to the parliament

Do we know that they will be loyal to the parliament? Police appears split by region, the big question is the military. The president is still acting, the legality of parliament deposing him looks questionable and the president is head of the executive. If the military splits, then it looks like civil war.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 09:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who heads the military now? Yanukovich fired the former chief when he declared, as I recall, that the army should not be used against civilians.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 09:41:59 AM EST
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Chief of the General Staff (Ukraine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also according to wikipedia the Admiral is also head of the Navy, while the position of commander of the ground forces is vacant, so I guess the Lieutenant General held that.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 12:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Maidan violated an accord that had been reached by the opposition, because they didn't like the terms.
What's the timeline of events between the agreement of last Friday (?) and the parliament votes taking power away from Yanukovych?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 09:18:49 AM EST
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Ukraine peace deal negotiator & foreign minister of Poland Radek Sikorski on Fareed Zakaria GPS - CNN Press Room - CNN.com Blogs

RADOSLAW SIKORSKI, POLISH FOREIGN MINISTER:  Hello, Fareed.  Yes, that was a very tense moment and I think if the opposition hadn't supported the deal, Yanukovych's hand would have been strengthened and maybe his security operations would not have disintegrated.

And then what happened was something really strange.  Within minutes of us signing the agreement, the protection, the security forces, started leaving the vicinity of the presidential palace, which they didn't need to do, and the decompression of the regime started very quickly.

by Katrin on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 02:52:22 PM EST
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Ukraine peace deal negotiator & foreign minister of Poland Radek Sikorski on Fareed Zakaria GPS - CNN Press Room - CNN.com Blogs

And then what happened was something really strange.  Within minutes of us signing the agreement, the protection, the security forces, started leaving the vicinity of the presidential palace, which they didn't need to do, and the decompression of the regime started very quickly.

I too find this strange. Generally, state power breaks when failing to attack revolters or failing to protect symbolic places. But breaking after signing a compromise, that is new afaik. Did Yanukovych look to weak to somebody that decided to pull the plug? And who would that be, a security boss, an oligarch, some group in a smoke-filled room?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 04:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Meanwhile, anti-Maidan thugs copying the Pravy Sektor style made an appearance in Odessa:



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 06:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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