Counting the MEPs | 79 comments (79 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Now, now, the FN may be lots of (none / 1)

Nice way of sidestepping the question...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 05:08:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think rather introducing nazism into the (none / 0)

Discussion is a nice way to sidetrack the whole discussion.

Probably the reason Godwin's law was drawn up

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 05:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think rather introducing nazism into the (none / 1)

It was in the other thread, but Brünning was brought into the discussion by Migeru. (And don't get me started about Godwin's Law.)

Let me ask directly: is the FN's rampant xenophobia no problem for you?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 05:33:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do not see the xenophobia as being rampant. (none / 0)

It is far less than it was. Far far less.

But again, I don't see the same question being asked to the french-based social-democratic types as to whether they have a problem with Manuel Vall's regular appeals to xenophobia (racist comments while Mayor in l'Essonne, deportations of Roms, et c.)

Why don't these get talked about?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 05:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well... (4.00 / 2)

some of us are closer to a party which called Valls on it, and refused to enter his government.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 06:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I recall saying some very (none / 0)

complimentary things about them at the time.

But unfortunately EELV is too wedded to Europe. Their slogan "give life to Europe"...well they are either naïve or they haven't been watching as Berlin has been giving life to a Europe I can only reject. All the while EELV's cheerleader in Germany, Cohn-Bendit, has been cheering them on (and ridiculing your party's current leadership).

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sun Jun 1st, 2014 at 06:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do not see the xenophobia as being rampant. (none / 0)

They do, here on ET. I suspect they are not considered central to the Socialist platform.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 at 04:07:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I do not see the xenophobia as being rampant. (none / 1)

I do not see the xenophobia as being rampant

You avert your eyes.

I don't see the same question being asked to the french-based social-democratic types ... Why don't these get talked about?

Who are the French-based social-democratic types here? If you want to troll Jerôme, he is not around. I for one have regularly exposed Valls in the Newsrooms and remember several discussions, and you can't deny that his line was the PS's reaction to the FN's success.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 01:46:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Vall's racism predates by a lot the FN (none / 0)

Success. When he was mayor of Evry Marine Le Pen hadn't even been elevated to leader.

He has wanted to be Sarkozy in PS label for a very long time. Small wonder, it works here. Why? Ultimately, because not enough jobs duh.
Not that the PS plans to actually do anything about that.

As for social democratic types this pretty much fits the bills for the lot of you. And the KPD was right about how y'all are.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 01:57:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vall's racism predates by a lot the FN (4.00 / 2)

The stalinist KPD was never right about anything. And happily nationalist anyway.

by IM on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 06:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wer hat uns verraten ? Sozialdemokraten ! (none / 1)

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by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 07:35:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wer hat uns verraten ? Sozialdemokraten ! (none / 0)

Forgotten nothing and learned nothing, what?

Now wonder you have that warm feeling of comradeship with fascists - then and now.

by IM on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 07:54:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wer hat uns verraten ? Sozialdemokraten ! (4.00 / 2)

Just to be clear that was me posting the youtube video (that I hope can be seen in Germany) as an interpretation of what redstar meant with the KDP reference.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 09:06:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wer hat uns verraten ? Sozialdemokraten ! (none / 0)

Yes, I misfired.

by IM on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 07:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Vall's racism predates by a lot the FN (4.00 / 6)

Vall's racism predates by a lot the FN

Now you're intentionally obtuse. First, Valls was mayor from 2001, that's just a year before le Pen got into the second round against Chirac, and FN had successes well before that. Second, what really matters is not what he did as a relatively unknown local politician, but what he did with full approval of the PS leadership, his PM and his President once he became interior minister. And years before Valls, his supposed role model Sarko was trying to out-FN the FN, too. But you know that full well.

Marine Le Pen hadn't even been elevated to leader

What does that have to do with anything? You keep pretending that we have had a (1) single-issue (2) French Presidential election and that (3) the FN candidate started with a clean slate and (4) without any party membership. In truth, we had an EP election, with several issues, FN had a party list loaded with the same old faces and plans alliances with forces in other countries sharing its "values" in much more than sovereignist opposition to the Euro. I could go on, but if you are in denial about the views of ET's resident FN supporter (fredouil) then you will remain in denial about it all.

As for social democratic types this pretty much fits the bills for the lot of you.

LOL! Shifty, aren't you? First it was "French-based social-democratic types" whom you surmise to be hypocritical about Valls, now that you can't locate a single one of those, everyone is a social democratic type? I suspect only a handful of us voted for S&D members, so your definition of "social democratic type" must be rather wide. In fact I wonder if you now classify those still faithful to the FDG as "social democratic types".

the KPD

Let's talk about the PCF, which you are bolting for the fascists. What happened to them that they lost credibility with you? How could it have happened? Come to think of it, how capitalist can China's Communist Party become before you see them in a worse light than the PCF now?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 11:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wondering if you saw Valls' latest racist (none / 1)

bullshit about revoking citizenship. Even made it to front web page of PS press organ Le Monde.

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2014/06/03/decheance-de-nationalite-valls-imprecis-va lls-amnesique_4430975_4355770.html

When we talk about racism in politics in France, there is a larger context. It is general, and MLP is not worse than Manuel Valls in my opinion.

As to adherence to social democracy and liberalism, I am especially talking about this site's historical primary patron. Not around much...conveniently...so as not to have to apologize for his party.

Finally in PCF we have a hack who is about one thing only...keeping what little power remainimg in place. Not renewal, not convince people, just keep old crusty mayors in place. He thought he had to ally with the PS, primarily because he is a profoundly stupid man. Of course, the lost virtually everywhere, and because of it, anywhere near the capital. And they are still in denial.

When the party in Beijing starts losing elections I might start talking like you expect. But that may also be a ways off.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Jun 3rd, 2014 at 10:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wondering if you saw Valls' latest racist (4.00 / 2)

I missed that. I am shocked and angry. I'm disappointed that nobody from EELV seems to have reacted publicly; I hope that if there were still EELV ministers, they would have called him on it (with the obvious corollary of resigning from his government : which is reason enough for the decision not to enter it).

This is the equivalent of talking about the death penalty after a paedophile murder. It's pretty hard to stand up and say "This anti-semitic terrorist jihadist should keep his French nationality", but of course there is no way, constitutionally, that he could lose it (born French, in France, to French parents, he holds no other nationality).

Thinking it through : I could lose my nationality (there have been about 20 cases in the past 20 years) : because I acquired it, and because I hold another : if I committed an act of terrorism or high treason. [On checking : No I couldn't, because I've been French for more than ten years now. Phew.)

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jun 4th, 2014 at 05:49:03 AM EST
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Re: Vall's racism predates by a lot the FN (4.00 / 2)