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On the other hand Feminism as such has only been around little more than a century.

Big tests are still to follow thus.

The few examples of matriarchal or "equal" societies do not quite decide what is natural. Explaining their paucity just by patriarchal aggression is just a "so-so" story as any other.

The Aka example is interesting, also from the ecological perspective. Extensive fatherly involvement does not look unnatural to me - but it is rather a luxury in the modern economy (and perhaps in many cultures).

by das monde on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 09:33:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Natural" has no discernable meaning here.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 10:06:31 AM EST
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I would relate that to basic emotional experiences and triggers.

On the other hand, particularly male emotional perceptions are "naturally" supposed to be malleable.

by das monde on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 10:12:45 AM EST
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The whole point about being human is that we are not restricted to what is "natural" (and still less, to any person's theory about what might be "natural").

The idea that we should give free rein to certain behaviours which might (or might not) be innate, and which might have been adaptive for hunter-gatherer societies, is just a bit weird. As you note in the diary, the Stanford prison experiment (and all of human history, actually) show us that people will do horrible things to each other (perhaps encouraged by primal impulses) if they are covered by a hierarchy and a doctrine. What I take away from this is that education and social engineering should be employed to take us as far away as possible from situations where this can occur. Likewise, for male dominance over women, one of the greatest causes of human suffering.

On the other hand particularly male emotional perceptions are "naturally" supposed to be malleable.

Perhaps you would like to expand on that? There seems to be a subtext here which is easily perceived to be a chip on your shoulder, but perhaps it's something else?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 11:07:41 AM EST
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On contrary, I feel freed from chips of my shoulders. Just find it amusing to bother you with sharing my experience :-)

But we are catching a deep point here. Emotion control is a key difference between sexes in intimate attraction. Whether a man keeps his (foremost negative) emotions to himself or throws then around makes a huge difference to woman's feelings. Or at least, this is what I learned. On the other hand, woman's emotions are the gospel, the reality of the relationship.

Feminism only reinforces this difference, gives more free rein to female desires and perceptions. I do not complain here - rather honestly believe that it is more fun this way! I just warn - those desires may not be favorable to your cited educational or egalitarian goals at all.

by das monde on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 11:40:23 AM EST
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<boggles>
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 11:49:29 AM EST
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Extensive fatherly involvement does not look unnatural to me - but it is rather a luxury in the modern economy (and perhaps in many cultures).

It's only a luxury if you assume the man is the primary wage-earner and the little woman is working as a hobby. Otherwise it becomes a necessity.

Except in the sense that in some versions of the modern economy extensive parental involvement is a luxury.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2014 at 04:53:30 AM EST
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The last 70 years are not representative of prevalent evolutionary necessities. Especially for lower classes.
by das monde on Tue Jun 17th, 2014 at 05:08:36 AM EST
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