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Asian cultures are sort of behind in feminism, right? Would you say that (particularly) East Asian women suffer from old-fashioned subservient roles more than in the West, and that is the biggest problem for most of them?
by das monde on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 at 06:57:44 AM EST
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The study mentioned (third-hand, via the NYT) is Egalitarianism, Housework,
and Sexual Frequency in Marriage
, and it's mildly interesting. It's a meta-analysis of US household data collected in the early 1990s, from which the authors conclude that couples which stick to "traditional" gender roles (woman does the housework, man takes out the garbage) have more sex than those who have a more egalitarian distribution of work. They explain this by the notion of "sexual scripts" :

Among teens, sexual scripts are highly gendered and link sexual activity to masculinity and femininity [...] Given the general importance of gender, we suspect that scripts continue to link sexual behavior to masculinity or femininity among heterosexual married couples.

With the proviso that this is WEIRD research (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic), and that the data is rather dated, I wouldn't be surprised if it were generally applicable. Perhaps Chinese men are getting more sex than us pussy-whipped westerners?

I tend to subscribe to a hypothesis mentioned in the paper (but not testable with their data set) : that sex is rationed by women (on the basis that men generally want more than women) in exchange  for whatever a woman wants. This fits well with highly gendered sexual scripting, and is observably much less frequent in egalitarian relationships.

So, in sum, if less-frequent sex is the price to pay for egalitarian relationships (which correlate strongly with mutually satisfying relationships, by the way) then that's OK with me personally.

And yes, I agree that

East Asian women suffer from old-fashioned subservient roles

But if you're asking whether having more frequent sex is a compensation for them, then I wouldn't know.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 at 09:28:46 AM EST
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I tend to subscribe to a hypothesis mentioned in the paper (but not testable with their data set) : that sex is rationed by women (on the basis that men generally want more than women) in exchange  for whatever a woman wants. This fits well with highly gendered sexual scripting, and is observably much less frequent in egalitarian relationships.
Observably less frequent in egalitarian relationships... - With what data sets?! The image over there is opposite:
In a lot of ways, sajiao is a strategy to get a man to do what his Chinese girlfriend or wife wants him to do; this is very similar to how some western women use sex to manipulate their mate.
If (say) a Japanese woman is withholding sex, it generally means that the intimate relationship is in a serious trouble, it is over basically (unless the man gets IT soon).

Also, "men generally want sex more than women..." needs qualification, such as "...until SHE wants it more". There is one book that both feminists and PUAs love.

by das monde on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 at 10:06:09 AM EST
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Observably less frequent in egalitarian relationships... - With what data sets?!

I'm relying on anecdata, but I don't think you would disagree if you actually understood me. I don't see the contradiction here. Indeed, the concept of saijao that you introduce is an excellent example of highly gendered sexual scripting, as is the fact that "some western women use sex to manipulate their mate".

"men generally want sex more than women" was a quote from the study I linked above, and of course not a good predictor of any individual relationship.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 at 10:24:18 AM EST
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eurogreen:

Perhaps Chinese men are getting more sex than us pussy-whipped westerners?

I saw a young middle class chinese girl interviewed on Euro Tv and she was saying how sexually uptight she found europeans.

<boggles> (ht Colman)

Then there's this

All the Single Ladies - Kate Bolick - The Atlantic

In 1969, when my 25-year-old mother, a college-educated high-school teacher, married a handsome lawyer-to-be, most women her age were doing more or less the same thing. By the time she was in her mid-30s, she was raising two small children and struggling to find a satisfying career. She'd never had sex with anyone but my father. Could she have even envisioned herself on a shopping excursion with an ex-lover, never mind one who was getting married while she remained alone? And the ex-lover's fiancée being so generous and open-minded as to suggest the shopping trip to begin with?

What my mother could envision was a future in which I made my own choices. I don't think either of us could have predicted what happens when you multiply that sense of agency by an entire generation.

But what transpired next lay well beyond the powers of everybody's imagination: as women have climbed ever higher, men have been falling behind. We've arrived at the top of the staircase, finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up--and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don't want to go out with.

Oh dear...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2014 at 02:21:51 PM EST
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