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The latter.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 11:32:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 6)

Schäuble. Since the Eurogroup approval includes him, he is obviously included in "everybody wins".

Apart from an insult from Merkel this time ("the Greek government arrived in reality step-by-step"), so far I don't see any government spin reported in the German media, all they say is that Schäuble already requested the vote on the Bundestag approval. The conservatives in the Bavarian CSU agitate against approval, and so does CDU foreign policy "expert" (and all-around asshole) Wolfgang Bosbach who reportedly wants to leave government over its (for him not hawkish enough) Greece policy.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 12:13:54 PM EST
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Bosbach is suffering on cancer; perhaps hew just wants a great exit.

by IM on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 12:35:23 PM EST
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Ugh... but I can't deny I laughed...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 12:45:09 PM EST
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German MPs urged to take tough line on Greece - FT.com

An influential German business group is urging MPs to take a tough line on Greece ahead of a Friday vote in the Bundestag to approve an extension to the country's bailout.
The lower house of Germany's parliament is broadly expected to pass the four-month extension that eurozone finance ministers agreed with Athens on Tuesday.
Nonetheless, Chancellor Angela Merkel could face a sizeable rebellion within her Christian Democratic Union and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union. If nothing else, the warnings from the CDU's business caucus and other conservatives reflect widespread unease about providing additional support to a Greek government amid doubts about its reform pledges.
In a letter to lawmakers, Kurt Lauk, president of the CDU's Economic Council, wrote: "A simple extension of the aid programme without effective terms would mean that we are knowingly throwing further good money after bad."
The council, an association representing business interests, is a longstanding critic of eurozone bailouts. It argues that rescues create moral hazard for governments that mismanage their economies.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 11:38:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If the Bundestag wants to blow up the Eurozone, they can go right ahead.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 11:45:47 AM EST
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I doubt that. Backbenchers having their day in the sun. Nothing more.

by IM on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 11:56:48 AM EST
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well, 29 or so voting against isn't nothing. Still overall the usual backbencher posturing.

by IM on Fri Feb 27th, 2015 at 01:59:02 PM EST
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That depends on if they believe their own spin of the lazy Greeks spiriting away our money or not. I don't believe that the coalition won't get enough votes, though. Their majority is large enough.

by Katrin on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 12:18:48 PM EST
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Critical account of the legacy of the Troika in Die Zeit [German] http://t.co/KhgBKlJVMd via @MichPant
— Stefan Loesch (@oditorium) febrero 25, 2015

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 12:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 5)

So now we learn that public TV had to be closed when IMF bureaucrat Poul Thomsen blackmailed the minister for the reform of public service, Antonis Manitakis, to immediately fire 4,000 additional public servants, just to scare those remaining, claims Manitakis. So this is what the current government must avoid, given Lagarde's indication of continuing to play hardball. Another IMF bureaucrat advised the Greek government to bring no lawsuits against any of those on the Lagarde list of tax cheats. As for the minimum wage reduction to a level opposed even by the employers, the blackmailers enforcing it aren't identified beyond "reviewers of the Eurogroup".

The article also says, citing a dissident IMF official from Brazil, that the IMF couldn't have participated in the bailout by its own rules until DSK changed them (though once the rule was changed, there was majority support for the bailout).

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 01:16:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 4)

These are all points made in the film I saw last night :

Puissante et incontrôlée : la troïka (French version)

Macht ohne Kontrolle, Die Troika (German version)

... ah. I see the film's researchers are credited in the article :
Eurokrise: Die wirtschaftlichen Eliten bleiben verschont | ZEIT ONLINE

Mitarbeit: N. Leontopoulos, E. Simantke Dieser Bericht beruht auf Recherchen für den Film "Macht ohne Kontrolle - die Troika" von Harald Schumann und Arpad Bondy, der am Dienstag Abend bei Arte gesendet wurde und noch in der Mediathek abrufbar ist.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 01:51:36 PM EST
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Not just credited, the article was written by Harald Schumann.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 02:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So now we learn that public TV had to be closed when IMF bureaucrat Poul Thomsen blackmailed the minister for the reform of public service, Antonis Manitakis, to immediately fire 4,000 additional public servants, just to scare those remaining, claims Manitakis. So this is what the current government must avoid, given Lagarde's indication of continuing to play hardball.

NO! It needs to be publicly challenged for the overt political intervention that it is - stifling diversity of opinion in broadcast media. Another bluff to call. Make this early and high profile. If need be the only of her red lines crossed at the time.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 02:49:26 PM EST
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Though I wonder when the charade will end? Another five years? Sometime in the 2020s when presumably von der Leyen or Kramp-Karrenbauer will have to clean up that mess? This "Insolvenzverschleppung" ("fraudulent trading due to balance sheet insolvency" in English) is just a political nuke waiting to explode. The only chance for survival is to enter into a mutually agreeable debt restructuring that can be favorably obfuscated so that Eurozone creditors don't face the wrath of [a majority] their populace. But common sense has been having a hard time. Why should it be different now?

_{Schengen is toast!}

by epochepoque on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 03:07:54 PM EST
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"In a letter to lawmakers, Kurt Lauk, president of the CDU's Economic Council,"

As things stand right now, the CDU's business council is at the nadir of it's influence. Lauk is hardly a power broker.

by IM on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 11:58:09 AM EST
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As Migeru said, hats off.

However, I am curious whether there was an official or semi-official reply to Manolis Glezos.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 10:42:06 AM EST
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PM Tsipras meets Mikis Theodorakis after he urged government to cancel bailout measures #Greece pic.twitter.com/KrAuz6Kcqd
— Derek Gatopoulos (@dgatopoulos) febrero 24, 2015

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 10:44:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 10)

I am amazed at how much of the Thessaloniki program they got into what was just passed.

The remaining problem is that they can't do expansionary fiscal policies, which everybody and Greece in particular would need. But hey, for a four month period it is not a bad program at all, and it gives much more time to plan the next step.

As I see it, Greece called the Eurogroups bluff and won.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 10:49:48 AM EST
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Greece called the Eurogroups bluff and won.

That is my take also. I have been hoping for this and, since the 20th, predicting it. Either way, Grexit or not, the Greek people will benefit and the 'austerians' loose, along with EPP politics. This cannot but encourage Podemos, who, when they win, will kill TINA for good. It is by no means over, but is at last headed in the right direction. Two little slices and now a big slice off of the baloney that is 'austerity' and TINA.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 12:30:59 PM EST
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I am not so optimistic. While it may help Podemos, for the Greeks, the EU already offered them an extension until June.

The teeth will come out then, because they will be able to say, "We gave you time to do something." In reality, there is not enough time at all.

If the program comes back in June, then there will not be a significant difference.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 01:55:14 PM EST
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Greece will be/should be better prepared for exiting the Euro, if nothing else.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:00:16 PM EST
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Agreed. Unfortunate that they didn't exit in 2010. They should have.

But if Greece could be fixed in 3 or 4 months, it would have already been done.

Greece could have been fixed in the short term by simply stopping corruption at the top, but the necessity of that can't be proven in a mere semester.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:12:44 PM EST
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I can only hope that the new government proceeds aggressively with corruption investigations. Especially sweet would be to find something deserving of serious prosecution involving someone who is also an important donor to the current German govenment.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:53:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 7)

Well, there is the fact that Germany refuses to extradite the former head of the Siemens Greek division, even though he is a Greek national.

by Upstate NY on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 03:00:37 PM EST
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Tsipras should raise press issue in the Eurogroup, EC and have parliamentarians do it in the EP. I doubt he is the only likely perp.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 03:07:10 PM EST
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Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 5)

He's not. There's a list of about 30 of them. But I though that the German courts had ruled that they had managed to drag it out for so long that the statute of limitations applied.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 03:25:19 PM EST
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International Court of Justice?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 10:25:47 AM EST
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Re: This could have gone worse, no? (4.00 / 10)

I don't know whether "called their bluff" is the right metaphor. But I think that Greece came to this conflict with one (possibly unspoken) threat to back their position: if the door was shut in their face, they would leave.

Not only would Grexit create considerable shockwaves on financial and currency markets, but the (likely) modified relations of Greece with Russia, at a time when Turkey also shows signs of increased entente with Russia and the abandonment of EU ambitions, while the Balkans are far from entirely stabilised and Ukraine...

Whatever Schäuble and his ministry wanted, Auntie Angela has this big problem of getting out of the Ukraine mess without it blowing up in her face. I think she may well be more concerned with that at the moment, than the defence of orthodoxy wrt Greece.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:17:33 PM EST
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As I said, Schauble didn't blink. Merkel put her hand over his face.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 02:56:02 PM EST
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Come June Greece can simply insist on being able to implement serious fiscal stimulus as part of its program. Let the Eurogroup hawks seek to destroy its banking system, with a back up in place, and let them try to force it to abandon the Euro, but make the whole process as painful to the financial sector and as damaging to Germany and the other hawks as possible. Litigate, litigate, litigate, but proceed. What do they have to lose?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 24th, 2015 at 03:41:00 PM EST
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If we look at the whole process, yes.

However, last week the eurogroup looked ready to play hardball, and then they accept this program which is much better then what sounded accetable to the eurogroup last week.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 05:13:38 AM EST
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Varoufakis still has his work cut for him balancing the books, though.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 05:24:54 AM EST
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If there are actual books to balance, that would be a bonus.

by Upstate NY on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 09:33:57 AM EST
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And if there are not what does that say about the 'oversight' of the Troika?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2015 at 04:01:05 PM EST
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The Troika doesn't have oversight.

The Troika is the oversight.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2015 at 04:55:46 PM EST
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Guess it would mean "The Troika don't need no stinkin books!"

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2015 at 05:49:42 PM EST
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The revealed preference was to accommodate. The rhetoric was to force a choice by Greece, the actual consequences of which even Merkel was unwilling to test. Blinked.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2015 at 12:49:22 PM EST
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