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That depends on what 'liberal' means. In economics and political science in England it meant the transition from traditional ways of handling land, labor and capital that had evolved organically, even if not with much consideration for the lower rungs of society,  over thousands of years. At least it understood that the needs of subsistence of the lower classes had to be taken into account. Liberal economics turned many of those concerns into 'externalities' and smashed the organic view of society into millions of individuals, each with the 'personal responsibility' to take care of themselves, regardless of how impossible that might be. Such problems were not the concern of businessmen, who had to operate now according to the 'rational' rules of the new liberal economic political economy.

Classical Liberal Economics was the champion of the business class and the middle class against the rules of the feudal order. Especially of interest were changes to the way in which the biggest embodiment of capital - land - was treated, and of the substitution of 'rule of law', adjudicated by impartial trained jurists for rule by the aristocracy from traditional practice, but labor was next in line. And the rationality was from the context of economic competition. That is the core of present day conservatism and 'ordoliberalism' seems to me just another suit of clothes for the ideology, perhaps with truncheons as accessories.

I certainly did not take Schauble to be a liberal. Nor do I find adherents of the Austrian School to be particularly liberal according to how that term is used today. But then 'liberalism' today remains tainted by the economic liberalism of its youth in the early 19th Century. But Socialism has been smeared beyond recognition by a concerted, well funded 50 year PR campaign from the right. Karl Polahyi's Great Transformation is my touchstone here. He was a Socialist in Red Vienna after WW I who moved to England where he wrote his much neglected masterpiece. Unsurprisingly, conservatives prefer to ignore it. It would be hard for them to deal actively with his criticisms.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Feb 28th, 2015 at 08:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends on what 'liberal' means.

Liberalism is a centuries-old family of ideologies that developed in rather different directions in different parts of the world over the past two centuries, although all past and present forms are based on some notion of "freedom". In South America, 19th-century liberalism was much like Whig liberalism, and it moved further right to become the class ideology of the narrow urban bourgeois. In the USA, 19th-century Whig liberalism made way in the 1930s to a liberalism you are familiar with today, one emphasizing "[government provision of] equal opportunities [to practise individual freedom]" (which took roughly the same position as Social Democracy in Europe), while those liberals who didn't want to go the Big Government route chose the "libertarian" tag. In Europe, parallel to Manchester capitalism, there have been forms of liberalism that emphasized a radical rejection of royalism and clericalism, and forms that absorbed nationalism (the notion of "national freedom") and thus weren't against state intervention in the economy. In the mid 20th century, these made way to new forms that reacted to fascism and communism. These included the Central Europeans going into US exile and mingling with the libertarians there who advocated a full withdrawal of the state from the economy, and who birthed neo-liberalism (in which, IMHO, the central ideological novelty is that it is okay to impose "economic freedom" by taking away people's political freedom of choice). In post-WWII West Germany, one of significance was ordoliberalism, which wanted the state to limit itself to imposing order and rules upon private competition with the aim of limiting both the excesses of capitalism and the excesses of collectivism. But there was a wider notion (including but not limited to ordoliberalism) of "social liberalism", which viewed wealth concentration as an inherently corrupting and oppression-breeding condition prone to trigger a blowback and thus to be tamed by strong state re-distribution. This had influence not only on the card-carrying liberals of the FDP, but parts of the CDU (and later the SPD), though it shouldn't be over-valued: for many it was a fig leaf, a counter to "real existing socialism" across the Iron Curtain, and its anti-monopolistic theses never stood a chance against the idea of national champions (especially when large state companies like telecommunications or railways were eyed for privatisation from the eighties). But this liberalism is not Schäuble's background, while liberalism developed further since 1989 in Germany, too: the ordoliberal notion of imposing order to limit excesses of capitalism (in particular reining in and splitting up employer associations) or the social-liberal notion of re-distribution to counter-act wealth concentration are gone almost completely, while the rest merged with the imported Anglo-Saxonized neo-liberalism.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 03:58:33 AM EST
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ARGeezer:
But Socialism has been smeared beyond recognition by a concerted, well funded 50 year PR campaign from the right.

42% of Germans find that socialism/communism are a good idea that was only implemented badly. https://www.freitag.de/autoren/felix-werdermann/linksextremes-deutschland/view?utm_content=buffercfa b3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer   Someone should organise them.

by Katrin on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 04:30:26 AM EST
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I should have more specificly aimed that remark at Anglo countries. Advantage Germany and much of Continental Europe today. But the current EPP ascendance has rendered that moot and success of financial interests in governmental capture has gone just as badly, if not worse, for any concern about Social Europe as has developments in the USA. Worse because Germany and Europe had much more in the way of social protection to lose.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 12:17:36 PM EST
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Yes, that makes sense. I believe that even the Anglo countries have some socialist traditions to connect to, though. The problem is that in most countries there is no party or organisation that could convincingly try to organise these people. And if Syriza fails, this will remain so.
by Katrin on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 12:52:50 PM EST
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The wealthy buy out and/or co-opt all potential threats. And co-opted government officials, often personally convinced of the 'rightness' of their positions, add a serious layer of official disapproval. Then almost all media is owned by very wealthy people and the editors know where the red lines are.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 01:25:20 PM EST
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I certainly did not take Schauble to be a liberal. Nor do I find adherents of the Austrian School to be particularly liberal according to how that term is used today.
Maybe I'm influenced by both the kind of people who call themselves "liberales" in Spain, as well as by Germany's Ordoliberalism.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 09:46:02 AM EST
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I have never been able to call myself a 'liberal' since reading The Great Transformation. I have liberal views on social issues - which is almost  all that remains of 'liberalism' in the USA. When the economic aspects are ignored you are missing the train and getting only the whistle. That is how we have ended up where we are.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Mar 1st, 2015 at 01:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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