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I could point there no such thing in the german legal system, but ok. Still ECB or eurosystem, there is no debt of Greece to the Bundesbank or any other national branch. Just  the ECB.
by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 05:56:26 PM EST
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Maybe they were called as a witness for the plaintiffs. And it was in the ECJ, if not also before the BVG.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:01:26 PM EST
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BVG runs the public transport in Berlin. BVerfG is the court that decides on constitutionality.
by Katrin on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:12:30 PM EST
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And it was before the BVerfG.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:21:40 PM EST
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expert witnesses
by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:32:49 PM EST
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Arguing against the Eurosystem of which they are a part.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:47:17 PM EST
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And BVerwG ist the highest administrative court. See? all very easy. Can't understand that anybody - like 80% of germans - would use a wrong abbreviation.  

back teh ECB and its german branch: important isn't babbling to the press or even to courts but monetary policy/ lender of last resort. And there is no national policy anymore there.

by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:30:23 PM EST
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Obviously buying covered bonds but not sovereign bonds in the secondary market isn't a policy mix deliberately discriminating against some members and in favor of others.

Clearly the ECB is a purely supranational institution, and it is merely a coincidence that its decisions happen to consistently promote German interests and atavistic German hard-money neuroses.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:36:51 PM EST
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Obviously buying covered bonds but not sovereign bonds in the secondary market isn't a policy mix deliberately discriminating against some members and in favor of others.

You missed the big program starting right now?

Somehow your view of the ECB is stuck in 2009.

"Clearly the ECB is a purely supranational institution,"

Yes, indeed. Weidmann hasn't won a vote since 2011 or so.

by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:44:07 PM EST
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No, I haven't missed any big program.

The ECB bought on the order of 1 % of all outstanding covered bonds over the course of less than two years. The piddling little Johnny-come-lately Securities Market Program amounted to less than a third of a percent of outstanding Treasury issues at its best, and was rolled out over two and a half years.

Size really does matter, and the ECB has been consistently undersizing its sovereign bond interventions.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 07:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obviously buying covered bonds but not sovereign bonds in the secondary market isn't a policy mix deliberately discriminating against some members and in favor of others.
It's getting to the point where we should update your old dictum about bid-offer spreads to

"under German ideology public debt is toxic unless it's been sanitised by being repackaged by a Pfandbriefbank"

German rescue fund takes over Duesselhyp bank after Heta problems (Reuters, March 15, 2015)

The article, by the way, manages to avoid mentioning that preserving the sacrosanct risk-freeness of Pfandbriefe is the overarching policy objective here.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"The German banking association BdB, which runs the fund, is, however, not planning to wind down the bank, but wants to continue its operations."

That is not the ECB. It is not even a public institution.

by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
important isn't babbling to the press or even to courts but monetary policy/ lender of last resort
I beg to disagree. The recent European Court of Justice's Advocate General opinion on OMT defining that secondary market purchases must allow "sufficient time for market price discovery" is an example of how recourse to the courts is extremely important and increasingly constrains monetary policy, as a direct consequence of German pressure.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 05:22:24 AM EST
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Funny when I first mentioned here that the ECb isn't totally with out checks, that there is the ECJ, you didn't wnated to accept that.

You are talking about the power of the ECJ here. Nothing to do with the Bundesbank.

by IM on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 10:03:33 AM EST
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when I first mentioned here that the ECb isn't totally with out checks, that there is the ECJ, you didn't wnated to accept that
Do you have a link? I don't remember that.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 10:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by IM on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 01:08:00 PM EST
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Let's just say that 3 and a half years later the principle it has been demosntrated that the court can be used to enforce a restrictive interpretation of the prohibition of monetary financing.

And I say restrictive because the letter of the treaty says nothing about secondary market purchases and yet it is becoming solidified in legal precedent that the prohibition of primary purchases must be extended to secondary purchases unless "sufficient time" elapses for "market price formation".

Hayek has won.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 01:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As to
There is no substantial judicial review of ECB policy decisions.
observe:
The AG has interesting things to say on market speculation. The GCC, largely relying on the expertise of the Bundesbank, pushed a market fundamentalist line on the matter: whatever risk spreads may be, they reflect nothing but market fundamentals. Hence, the central bank should not mess with them as that would undermine market discipline, distort prices, provoke moral hazard, etc. The AG takes a candidly different view, on numerous occasions referring to market speculation as undermining economies and preventing fundamentals from asserting themselves. In such instances the ECB is justified to step in and correct destabilizing excesses and price distortions. The AG dodges the issue of how to determine "correct" market prices. The ECB should simply use its discretion. The AG goes out of its way to defend the ECB's independence (i.e., unchecked discretion), suggesting that no court should challenge its expertise or question its intentions:
_The ECB must accordingly be afforded a broad discretion for the purpose of framing and implementing the Union's monetary policy. The Courts, when reviewing the ECB's activity, must therefore avoid the risk of supplanting the Bank, by venturing into a highly technical terrain in which it is necessary to have an expertise and experience which, according to the Treaties, devolves solely upon the ECB. Therefore, the intensity of judicial review of the ECB's activity, its mandatory nature aside, must be characterised by a considerable degree of caution (AG 2015, No. 111).
It was of course always something of a curiosity that Germany, the world champion of central bank independence, should see its constitutional court challenge the ECB's independent judgment, and with the Bundesbank, the ECB's blueprint, as its "chief advisor" by its side. So much for the realities of today's intra-European power politics.
(Jörg Bibow, January 14, 2015)

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 01:24:07 PM EST
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Let's jut say that was right about the power of the court.

Unrelated I was also right about the rapidly diminishing Bundesbank influence at the ECB.

by IM on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 01:58:38 PM EST
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Yes you were.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 03:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there a rule for how to compose acronyms in German?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:41:48 PM EST
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Not that I know.

take BVG. actual name:

Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe

Now there is no "G" in there. I harkens back to the original name:

 Berliner Verkehrs-AktienGesellschaft

But even there they just dropped just the "A".

by IM on Sun Mar 15th, 2015 at 06:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, and there is not even a rule how to say (as opposed to write) them. "BVG" (Be Vau Ge) is used frequently in speaking, in discussions of rotting infrastructure or ticket prices, but never for constitutional matters. Don't try to say the acronym BVerfG, say "Karlsruhe". (A tourist in the Hamburg S-Bahn once asked me the way to station Aitch Bee Eff, and it took me a long while before I got where he wanted to go!) If you read on legal matters though, and decisions are quoted, the sources contain the "BVerfG".
by Katrin on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 05:00:13 AM EST
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Now that the EC trains to Germany are run by DB-ÖBB (and not by Trenitalia that never cared what happened after the train left Italy), the announcements in Italian train stations try to announce the stops in Austria and Germany as well. So I now know that the train stops in something called Innsbruck acca-bi-effe.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 05:07:51 AM EST
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This is not as funny or interesting as your examples, but I recently realised that I never heard the spoken version of "EBA" (for Eisenbahn-Bundesamt = Federal Rail Authority) despite reading it thousands of times. That is, "eba" (the way I read it in my mind) or "E-Be-A"? A German colleague confirmed that it's the first.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Mar 16th, 2015 at 04:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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