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How do you embed to Tweets on ET? For now I'm quoting via The Guardian's live blogging:

Raoul Ruparel ‏@RaoulRuparel

Have always said #Varoufakis speeches to #Eurogroup read like econ prof lecturing students. Not surprised not liked.

Open Europe @OpenEurope

Slovak FinMin Kazimir asked "what do you expect from Varoufakis today?", says: "The same, the lecturing". #Greece

Dimitris Yannopoulos @DimitrisY

"Lecturing" is a common excuse for shrugging off well-supported arguments that participants are unable to refute. @RaoulRuparel @OpenEurope




*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 01:02:50 PM EST
IMO the worst part of the whole sad saga of the past six months is that the Syriza government failed to sway even a single player on the creditor side, and far from being uncomfortable fellow-travellers, all the S&D members in the game (from the Slovakian government to Commissioner Pierre Moscovici) refused a debate on economics and actively played along in the blame game. And blaming it on Varoufakis's style is at best a cop-out (but I more think it would be an adoption of anti-Varoufakis spin). The political elites are a lost case completely (and so is the MSM).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 01:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I put less emphasis on this point, simply because even the Cypriot FinMin goes along with the 18. There are powerful weapons that the EU can use against you, so there is no need to put yourself out there and risk the livelihoods of your people.

Europe needs only one scapegoat.

AND, one might even argue that Cyprus votes against Greece with Greece's blessing.

by Upstate NY on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 01:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, Cyprus might be the one single should-be rebel choosing to be a silent fellow-traveller out of fear. What about all the others (who together are needed for a majority in all the EU institutions)?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 01:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, here is one S&D member singing in a different tune than another (but then he signed off that Eurogroup statement, too):

Bruno Waterfield @BrunoBrussels

Big contrast between Sapin & @J_Dijsselbloem. France stressing Greece will stay in euro, that talks can continue



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 02:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just Feance was the sole member state pro prolongation.
by IM on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 02:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that France was pro prolongation, but was alone with that opinion.
by IM on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 02:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what is pro prolongation? (I am not familiar with that term)
by rz on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 02:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he second programm of the EFSF/IMF ends on tuesday. There are still a few undisbirsed billions left- If it should be still used, it has to be prolonged by the eurogroup (and the IMF). Today they said they won't do it.
by IM on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 03:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pro prolongation of the current agreement past its expiration date next Tuesday to some time after the referendum next Sunday.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 03:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, reports say Sapin argued for the extension. But then signed off the declaration of the 18, ineffective and spineless like the rest of the S&D.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Note : Sapin does not represent France, he is the Commissioner. France is, I suppose, represented by the invisible Macron (I have seen absolutely no mention of him anywhere on the subject. Probably just as well...=

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sapin is France's Finance minister. Moscovici is the Commissioner. Macron is economy minister. Sapin and Moscovici attend the Eurogroup. Moscovici made no statement. Sapin gave a rather nice press conference and Q&A - you can find it by following the links in the diary.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:16:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While Sapin stood out in insisting on continued discussions and Euro membership, he too criticised the referendum. As for Moscovici, he wasn't nice at all: he claimed an agreement was within reach and blamed the Greek government for breaking off the talks.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My bad. Thank you both. French politics sickens me so that I have switched it off. I've never really noticed any significant differences between Sapin and Moscovici (but Macron is clearly worse than both)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
one of the core problems seems to be that the Greek government has destroyed its own reputation as a serious and good faith negotiator.

Time and time again the Greek government left a meeting with what everyone understood was an agreement on this or that only to walk back from it the day after.

Time and time again the Greek government made promises to deliver this or that at some date only to show up with empty hands at the due date - or with something entirely else.

Varoufakis may be a genius economist and may possess a superb economic understanding - but if nobody else is even willing to trust you when you tell the time of day, all this knowledge is useless.

Every horse trader knows that his ultimate capital is his word. This also applies to diplomacy.

With no credibility left, the Syriza government finds only closed doors, regardless how right they are on the issues.

by DerFriederich on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 02:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't believe any of what you've written. Can you show us a source that backs up what you are saying?
by Upstate NY on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 03:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How many Frankfurter Allgemeine articles would you even bother to read? Or any German press?

From my point of view the game here was pretty obvious. Over the last sic months, the Greeks would loudly argue and protest at each step but in the end they would promise and accept whatever needed t be promised and accepted to get over the next hurdle at hand, without ever intending to hold up their parts of the various bargains, because they - correctly or not - considered those bargains nonsensical or counterproductive.

They traded credibility for time.

Which would have been an acceptable deal had they had something to show for it. But apparently they did not use those six months to actually make inroads at anything internally. So now they have hardly any internal progress against the January situation, and have no international diplomatic capital left.

The reports I see from the Euro group meetings speak of seething anger, utter annoyance, and a complete collapse of trust on the side of Euro group members towards Greece.

by DerFriederich on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 06:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just one.
by Upstate NY on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 06:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How many Frankfurter Allgemeine articles would you even bother to read?
As long as they're news and not opinion...
Or any German press?
We don't shy away from the German press on this blog. But no Welt or Bild, please.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 07:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is a (stealth) class warfare on any level, from any side. Syriza vs the institutions, and internal "possibilities". Achievement metrics are necessarily confusing. There are no good options for those who have nothing, and the misery has to spread anyway. What Syriza is doing is at least interesting. From its point of view, the Eurogroup and Greece's rich have to be upset somewhat.  
by das monde on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 07:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The reports I see from the Euro group meetings speak of seething anger, utter annoyance, and a complete collapse of trust on the side of Euro group members towards Greece.
Then you have not been paying attention. This is not a new development; the minutes of the Eurogroup meetings have always consisted of seething denunciations of Greek sovereignty and high-handed demands that they comply with obviously insane demands.

If the rhetoric you are seeing has developed over the course of the "negotiations," then it is most likely because you are relying on unreliable secondary sources like FAZ.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How many Frankfurter Allgemeine articles would you even bother to read? Or any German press?

If you take your truth from the German mainstream media of today, you're no different from Americans who believed Saddam has WMD in early 2013, reading the US MSM. Yes, it has gotten that bad. The blatant superficiality, bad faith and pro-government bias was exposed best by the media reaction to the VarouFakeFake video.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:27:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it has gotten that bad

Don't you mean it's worse? Or  is there a German equivalent of  Knight Ridder?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:10:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh. But, seriously, I don't know whether the German MSM of today can be judged worse than the US one of 2003 on the whole: certainly worse in lacking strong alternative media and having very little true investigating journalism active on the subject (there was that documentary on arte but nothing on the scale of say Seymour Hersch), but I think the journalist vanity aspect hasn't gotten as out of hand and there is no Fox News (however deep Günther Jauch sank in the VarouFake scandal he is no Sean Hannity or even David Broder).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, but even those media can't hide reality 100%. So, if Friederich can't be bothered to read anything but FAZ, he could try this. Friederich, if later in your life you are tempted to say you hadn't known, remember that FAZ article, will you?
by Katrin on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 06:53:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
very nice catch and post, Katrin.

DerFriedrich, darf ich Frage?

What is your skin in the game, if you would truthfully answer? Do you work for a political party, or a governmental agency? Are you somewhere a journalist? Do you work for the BND, or the DFB?

Do you have your own political website, or opinion journal?

I, for example, am here for the widening of my political and economic horizons on a non-professional basis.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:49:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Do you work for the BND, "

No he is just a Struwelpeter character come to life.

Do you want to to pursue this "are you n mossad agent" line of inquiry seriously?

by IM on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 01:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah so, du meinst "Die Geschichte vom bösen Friederich"

Seriously, i mean no offense, and was just wondering out loud...

Aside: as an example of professional propaganda, Der Spiegel just had an article about Merkel's silence about the Greek referendum. Neglecting to mention of course, her now public statement to Tsipras (on the phone i guess) that the Ref was "either the Euro or the Drachma."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 02:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The reports I see from the Euro group meetings speak of seething anger, utter annoyance, and a complete collapse of trust on the side of Euro group members towards Greece.

As well as utter arrogance, complete refusal to discuss the economic rationality of their demands (pacta sunt servanda!), vile spin and false rumours (Varoufakis was supposed to be replaced, remember?), bafflement that someone would confront bad faith negotiations with the tools of democracy (bad, bad referendums, bad, bad parliamentary votes [if they are not in the Bundestag]) and lies and spin channelled anonymously to media like the FAZ with transparency (bad, bad 'leaks'), and complete superficiality (serious people wear ties).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:47:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The comments about the referendum I see in Germany (both from politicians and pundits) are more along the line of "that would have been a great idea, 4 weeks ago. Now it's just a stalling tactic and counterproductive").

Nobody opposes a referendum per se.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:45:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL. I have absolutely no doubt that they would have called a referendum call a counter-productive stalling tactic four weeks, two months or five months ago, too. At any rate, the "take it or leave it" ultimatum was made now, not four weeks ago.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And what do these politicians and pundits think that the referendum should have asked (precise formulation, please)? According to Varoufakis it is ""Do you accept the institutions' proposal as it was presented to us on 25th June in the Eurogroup?", something that would have been rather difficult to ask 4 weeks ago.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The negotiations are a matter of public record. It is quite clear that it was not Syriza who were negotiating in transparently bad faith.

Not that it matters. There was never any range of potential agreement. So negotiating in good faith was never going to be more than an exercise in pedagogy toward the slower learners among the remaining PASOK vote.

In the end, Syriza got what they wanted from the negotiations: Six months in which to consolidate power over the Greek bureaucracy. This was always going to end with a siege, but at least the defenders have now had time to clear the collaborators out of the gate houses.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 04:51:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is a bold assumption. "Consolidated power".

But what did they accomplish for the people? There's hardly any progress on anything. All problems that plagued Greece in January are still plaguing it, and there is no trend to see in any, let alone the right direction.

Do you seriously believe a Syriza government will survive flushing the country down the drain? Once the Greek population understands how badly these guys miscalculated, they WILL be blamed for whatever hardship follows...

by DerFriederich on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 06:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 07:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... silly for any of the Troika to expect Syriza to capitulate to their demands ... because the Syriza government would not survive flushing the country down the drain, and flushing the country down the drain is the core demand of the Troika.

The fact that there was no benefit available to them from capitulation to that core demand, and no net benefit to the balance of the EU from attempting to enforce that demand, offers the basis for a negotiated improved outcome, but so long as the Troika stands firm on their demand that the Greek government flush the country down the drain as a pre-requisite for being given finance, its seems that the point of the negotiations was not to come to an agreement, in the more common general definition of the word, but rather to give more time to bring the Syriza government to its knees ... which low income nations would recognize as the IMF's preferred meaning of "agreement".


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat Jun 27th, 2015 at 10:37:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But what did they accomplish for the people? There's hardly any progress on anything. All problems that plagued Greece in January are still plaguing it, and there is no trend to see in any, let alone the right direction.
The policy problems Greece had in January are not fixable on a six-month timeline, especially not while at the same time negotiating with a transparently bad-faith group of far-right gangsters.

What Syriza has accomplished is consolidate its power over the functions of the Greek state sufficiently that it can begin taking unilateral actions, which they could not do in January.

So now they can tell Stasi 2.0 to shove his far-right thuggery up his ass.

Do you seriously believe a Syriza government will survive flushing the country down the drain?
You're assuming they miscalculated. That remains to be seen.

This is not the beginning of the end, it's the end of the beginning.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:06:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What Syriza has accomplished is consolidate its power over the functions of the Greek state sufficiently that it can begin taking unilateral actions, which they could not do in January.

This also remains to be seen. I certainly hope so.

by generic on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:38:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's fair, but just going by its poll numbers alone at least some of the relevant people must have turned. The civil service is not a small enough or insular enough ghetto that it can totally dodge the sort of landslide popularity shift Greece has undergone over the last six months.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:28:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
flushing the country down the drain?

LOL. It's the troika policies that have been flushing the country down the drain:

And the latest ultimatum was promising Greece more of that (and they had the gall to criticise the last offer of the Greek government for anti-growth measures). Where the real goal isn't even Greece but scaring France and Italy.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:34:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As Mariana Mazzucato notes:

(my emphasis)

Greek bailout extension refused: a panel of leading economists give their verdict | Comment is free | The Guardian

Instead, insisting on the status quo full of more austerity produced an increasingly weaker Greece, more unemployment and more loss of competitiveness. Now alone, the only hope is that Varoufakis' insistence on a European-wide investment programme will at least find a national solution. Perhaps it can begin with Greece forming a development bank like the KfW, and use it to kickstart the kind of long-term investment strategy that should have been part of this `pact' from the start. Oh, and Italy's competitiveness is just as bad. So if Grexit now happens-- and Europe does not finally get a proper doctor in the room - get ready for Itexit over the next year.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:57:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek bailout extension refused: a panel of leading economists give their verdict | Comment is free | The Guardian

The conditions of the bailout therefore should have been conditions that emulate the kind of public sector reform and investment strategy that characterises many of the competitive powerhouses of northern Europe - including Germany. Indeed, Greece should not do what Germany says it does (austerity), but what Germany actually does (invest).

Over the last decade, Germany has invested in all the key areas that not only increase productivity, but also create innovation-led growth. Companies like Siemens are the result of a dynamic public-private eco-system in Germany, with high government spending on science-industry links (Fraunhofer institutes), the existence of a large and strategic public bank (KfW) that provides patient, long-term, committed capital to German businesses, a long run-focused stakeholder type of corporate governance (rather than the short-termist shareholder Anglo-Saxon model that southern Europe has copied), an above-average R&D/GDP ratio (rather than the below average one in Greece, Portugal and Italy), investments in vocational training and human capital, and a mission-oriented `energiewende' strategy focused on greening the entire economy.

With the obligatory quibbles that Germany in the past two decades is no role model at all in infrastructure investment, and the Energiewende has been turned into a self-contradictory mess (for example, due to resistance from Merkel's party, the economic minister just gave up on his idea to tax old coal plants out of competition).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe's Moment of Truth - The New York Times

It seems to me that the troika -- I think it's time to stop the pretense that anything changed, and go back to the old name -- expected, or at least hoped, that Greece would be a repeat of this story. Either Tsipras would do the usual thing, abandoning much of his coalition and probably being forced into alliance with the center-right, or the Syriza government would fall. And it might yet happen.

But at least as of right now Tsipras seems unwilling to fall on his sword. Instead, faced with a troika ultimatum, he has scheduled a referendum on whether to accept. This is leading to much hand-wringing and declarations that he's being irresponsible, but he is, in fact, doing the right thing, for two reasons.

First, if it wins the referendum, the Greek government will be empowered by democratic legitimacy, which still, I think, matters in Europe. (And if it doesn't, we need to know that, too.)

Second, until now Syriza has been in an awkward place politically, with voters both furious at ever-greater demands for austerity and unwilling to leave the euro. It has always been hard to see how these desires could be reconciled; it's even harder now. The referendum will, in effect, ask voters to choose their priority, and give Tsipras a mandate to do what he must if the troika pushes it all the way.

If you ask me, it has been an act of monstrous folly on the part of the creditor governments and institutions to push it to this point. But they have, and I can't at all blame Tsipras for turning to the voters, instead of turning on them.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:39:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with the quibbles, but I like Mariana Mazzucato's analysis for a couple of reasons:

  1. It dares to say that being a solvency crisis, we have to look at solvency elsewhere - thus while the Eurogroup may believe that "Grexit is no problem" it's clear that other countries, Italy being the likely next candidate, are still in a crisis situation. Once Greek is no longer the focus of attention, the Eurozone will come under renewed pressure as an institution.

  2. As we have talked about for a long while at ET, the disparity in productivity and investment between the "core" and "periphery" in Europe sets up the EZ for crisis. AND the rules and beliefs are all stacked against improving the situation...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 06:55:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 "There was never any range of potential agreement. So negotiating in good faith was never going to be more than an exercise in pedagogy"

If that would correct, thy never negotiated in good faith.

by IM on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 01:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That does not follow. It is possible for a party to a negotiation to negotiate in good faith and still conclude that there is nothing on the table which improves on their BATNA.

Of course when one party negotiates in as transparently and psychotically bad faith as the Eurogroup has done throughout this process, it becomes very difficult to make any empirical distinction between Greece arguing in good faith and finding no partner with which to make a deal, and Greece playing along in a kabuki play. Since the only empirical test which would distinguish those two possible realities from each other would be to engage Greece with a proposal that was not obviously insane.

You might argue that stringing the negotiation along after it became obvious, back in January, that the Eurogroup was negotiating in bad faith was itself a form of bad faith. But you could also take the view that the negotiations ended when the Eurogroup made it clear back in January that it would never negotiate in good faith with Syriza, in which case playing along with the kabuki was not so much negotiation in bad faith as it was executing on their alternative to negotiated agreement.

I will leave it to those more pedantic than myself to conclude on that point, and simply note that by the end of the January clown parade Greece did not owe the Institutions the time of day. Nevermind good faith at the negotiation table.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 02:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You might argue that stringing the negotiation along after it became obvious, back in January, that the Eurogroup was negotiating in bad faith was itself a form of bad faith.
It wasn't, since the 20 February agreement was achieved.

However, there have since been public disagreements on the meaning of the February 20 agreement.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 02:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True, I had misplaced a month in my internal calendar - it was in end-Feb. the Eurogroup pissed away its credibility by going back on the Feb. 20 deal before the ink was dry.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 03:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Every horse trader knows that his ultimate capital is his word. This also applies to diplomacy."

A claim below is:

Three things happened Friday. 1. Greece had a proposal that converged closely with the Institutions, except for $200m extra cut for military. 2. Institutions had a proposal that walked back increase on hotels from 6% VAT to 23%. 3. The Eurogroup not only ripped up the Greek proposal, but also the Institution's proposal, and then it gave Greece an ultimatum: extend the current MoU for 6 month, but without the requisite funding to see your debt repayments, or your banking solvency

How can this be about his "word", given (3). The Greek government say they will come back with an offer, they give the institutions most of what they ask for, and add a reduction in military spending on top, which in actual austerian economics is an additional good concession, and its all tossed to the side by the Eurogroup, insisting instead that the Greek government stop acting as if they are the elected government of their country and hand over sovereignty to the ECB.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:19:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
to quote the Guardian:

The decision and the manner in which it was delivered caught his negotiating partners off guard, not least as it came within hours of Tsipras's return from a Brussels summit of EU leaders on Friday, where he had private talks with German chancellor Angela Merkel and President Hollande of France.

At their post-summit press conferences, neither of the two sent any signals of the bombshell from Athens. Neither did summit chair Donald Tusk.
EU ministers refuse bailout extension for Greece as referendum looms
Read more

Some eurozone ministers called Tsipras's decision "bizarre" and said they were mystified about what he was trying to do.

And that was not the first time. You don't negotiate that way - the point of negotiation is that participants at the very minimum clearly understand each others positions.

Remember when Schaueble traveled home from that first(?) Syriza summit in late afternoon, having been assured that important points were settled and only the details were still worked on? Hours later Syriza walked back from the whole thing.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:21:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't negotiate that way

This was a reaction to a ultimatum, which is no negotiation at all. In the previous two weeks, the Eurogroup and the Council rejected Greek proposals without any substantial debate. You don't negotiate that way.

Syriza summit

?

Hours later Syriza walked back from the whole thing.

With good reason:

Paul Mason: Schauble nixed text seeking to `amend' bailout programme |thetoc.gr

The Financial Times claimed that both the Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis and Deputy PM Yannis Dragasakis had agreed to sign the draft but that the Greek Prime Minister had pulled the plug at the last minute. It is also claimed that the German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schauble left the meeting believing that a deal had been struck. That version of events has been rejected as thoroughly inaccurate by the Greek government.

Now Channel 4's Paul Mason has provided another account according to which it was Schauble's inflexibility as opposed to Tsipras's that was chiefly to blame for the non-agreement.

Citing an 'authoritative Greek source', Mason says that the Greek delegation had agreed to a draft that called for the Greek program to be `amended and extended and successfully concluded'. However Schauble refused to entertain the thought of amending the Greek program and demanded the word be removed. That resulted in the next draft text - the version rejected outright by the Greek delegation and leaked to the Financial Times.

This was neither the first nor the last time Stasi 2.0 played this game.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And, of course, the main problem with this conservative obsession about proper behaviour is not its utter hypocrisy, but that it ignores the real issue: that the 'reforms' the creditors want to enforce (in denial of democracy) are unworkable and have been proven unworkable, at least for the goals publicly claimed (return to growth, debt sustainability).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:02:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This was in February, too:

Greece deal is first step on the road back to austerity | Business | The Guardian

The rightwing orthodoxy that dominates thinking in Brussels has asserted itself over the hapless Greeks. A deal that allows the eurozone policymakers, the International Monetary Fund and the government of Athens to keep talking next week is the first stage in a clampdown on anti-austerity sentiment.

That much was clear from the statements coming out of Brussels, not least those from Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany's veteran finance minister, who indulged himself with some patronising comments to show where the power lies. "Being in government is a date with reality, and reality is often not as nice as a dream," was the quip he delivered with a smile, one that is usually omitted from diplomacy school.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:36:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A last quip about the indignation, something fellow ET blogger dvx wrote back in 2008, commenting some of Schäuble's defences of his Stasi 2.0 proposals:

dvx:

I know they say that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, but after watching the global neocons I'm starting to think it's indignation.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The whole point of these negotiations is that Greece wants more money from the creditors, preferably as gift since they can't even afford their existing debt.

That is a position of extraordinary weakness, and Tsipras and his merry band seem to not accept that.

That is the reality Schaeuble spoke of. And he was right. But instead of folding early, Syriza raised the bets, and now the Creditors are calling the cards.

It was always clear there would be a point where the Greek bluff would be called. Now it's (hopefully) come.

What did you expect?

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:03:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"The whole point of these negotiations is that Greece wants more money from the creditors,..."

Interesting. Where does Greece demand "more money from the creditors"? Care to explain?

by Katrin on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:59:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right now. Always.

There is not a single Greek proposal that does not contain demands for fresh money. Yes, Varoufakis has said he does not want new debt - but all his suggestions involve actions that result in money flowing unilaterally from Euro countries to Greece - investment programs, ELA, EFSM/ESM.

And that list even ignores the fact that debt restructuring, quantitative easing, interest deferment and moratorium and similar actions also represent a massive financial transfer to Greece.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 08:38:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, when you insist on running persistent current account surpluses, you will need to make unilateral transfers to the people funding your current account surpluses with their current account deficits.

This is a fairly fundamental macroeconomic identity: Capital and current account must sum to zero.

Blaming Varoufakis for being unable to make six plus one and a half equal zero does not display the requisite understanding of elementary arithmetics to run a kindergarden, nevermind a currency union.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:02:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of your list only investment programmes could possibly meet the definition of "more money" to Greece, but only if one is unaware that thanks to Toika imposed austerity Greece cannot access EU funds for exactly that purpose.

If you believe that the ECB doing their job and maintaining Greek banks' liquidity constitutes a credit to Greece, well perhaps you might want to buy a nice unicorn or two?

Do you by any chance believe that the money that the Greeks try to get at their ATMs was your money? No, it is their own money.

by Katrin on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 02:59:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece does not want new money. No new loans. Just refinancing of the outstanding ones, or if that feels too much like new loans, extending the maturities of the outstanding loans. Like the IMF has suggested.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Sun Jul 5th, 2015 at 10:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece wants more money from the creditors

Nope, Greece wants a viable economic future, in contrast to the constant depression offered my austerity. In the best of worlds, this would have included debt relief and fiscal transfers (like the one German states receive) for a Keynesian stimulus programme, so that the remaining debt can be served in the future. Schäuble rejected that back in February and insisted on the continuation of the system in which Greece gets money to give it back to its creditors and is forced to implement unworkable 'reforms'.

That is a position of extraordinary weakness

It's not that one-sided.

Remember that the first bailout of Greece was in reality a bailout of Greece's irresponsible non-Greek private lenders (a typical socialisation of the risks). In the time since, the creditors had three, at times contradictory motivations: (1) keep up the fantasy that there won't be a default and thus no loss of taxpayer money, (2) force the governments of Greece to implement anti-democratic and nonsensical economic "reforms", (3) keep others in line.

If the creditors had been half-way rational and only considered the finances, they would have weighted which solution would have meant the smallest default. But they were more concerned with political loss of face, and may end up now with much greater write-offs than one they could have agreed upon by accepting any of the Greek proposals over the past six months. Except people like you won't ask this question, and will accept their excuse that these big write-offs are Tsipras's fault rather than a testament to their totally botched negotiation.

I should note that while I can well imagine that Schäuble planned for this outcome for months, I still don't think that most other players on the creditor did. I think most of them have miscalculated in a criminal way: hoping that they can get Tsipras to abandon his voters with an offer to 'join the club', or trigger a split in Syriza, or scare them into submission or trigger new elections.

That is the reality Schaeuble spoke of.

So now you won't discuss how this is no way to conduct a negotiation. Double standards, how typical.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 01:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why on earth are reforms "unworkable"?

Efficient tax collection?

A 21st century grade well functioning public administration?

Corruption at Swedish, not Swaziland levels?
(Yes, I know. Italy. Romania.)

A well managed public service with a minimum of political patronage?

A public service size commensurate with the financial ability of Greek society?

A judical system that provides timely and workable resolution of business and administrative disputes comparably to other EMU members?

I could go on. Nothing of that is rocket science - it "just" requires good government.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Regarding tax collection, corruption, political patronage, judicial system - the difference is in local oligarchies. Syriza is much more serious (though not much able) to address the Greek oligarchy than the troika institutions.
by das monde on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 09:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Efficient tax collection?
In the Greek proposal, vetoed by the IMF.

A 21st century grade well functioning public administration?
In the Greek proposal.

Corruption at Swedish, not Swaziland levels?
In the Greek proposal.

A well managed public service with a minimum of political patronage?
In the Greek proposal.

A public service size commensurate with the financial ability of Greek society?
Pure sophistry, since the "financial ability" of a society is decided by political convention: The marginal cost of printing more money is zero, so sovereign financing can never be a scarce resource. Only a political weapon wielded by those with a pathological dislike of the public sector.

A judical system that provides timely and workable resolution of business and administrative disputes comparably to other EMU members?
Already in the Greek proposal. Unless you meant to append "in favor of the businesses." In which case you can shove it where the sun won't shine.

When every substantive proposal on your list is either uncontroversial or in fact the Greek position that the Troika is rejecting, it may be a sign that you need to maybe go read the Greek proposals, instead of Stasi 2.0's lies about them in FAZ.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:11:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL. Except for the red herring about the size of the public service, those are not the parts the Greek proposals differed from the troika proposals.

Unworkable reforms are ones that claim to put Greece back on the path to growth and debt sustainability, all the while depressing consumption and thereby tax income. That is, ones where expectation and reality diverges this spectacularly:

And let's not forget that these policies are also unworkable because the social destruction they bring (I bet you haven't read the FAZ link Katrin provided) is bound to trigger political results that undo them. The Syriza–ANEL government is already such a result, but if fools like Dijsselbloem get what they wanted in collapsing the government, the next one will be the Nazis.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:06:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DerFriedrich, ignoring that Tsipras/Syriza has actually, or is actually, addressing your concerns, you seem to be missing a very huge point.

Greece has had decades of entrenched corruption from the oligarchy, including during the last five years of acquiescence to the Troika. And you seriously expect that corruption to be undone within six months of a totally new government?

You must truly be an honored Professor of Political Science, Economics, and Fantasy Role-play, and Yurp seriously needs someone of your understanding to fix this mess quickly. Please help us.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:30:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, when making agreements with ND- an PASOK-led governments earlier, why haven't agreements been torn up on the basis that the same elites responsible for past corruption and mismanagement don't guarantee success for any reform?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This isn't a game.

Schaeuble didn't want to leave a hole in the text which Greece could use to smuggle more of their demands in later on.

That's his position, and he made it clear at the time.

This seems to be one of those word vs word situations. And I do not trust the Greek version.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:54:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So Schäuble briefing that he had left the meeting believing a deal had been struck was a lie?

If so, what was the intent behind that lie, other than to smear the Greeks (once again) in the mass media?

You're right, it isn't a game.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:16:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think it was a lie. I think the Greek side claiming otherwise lies.

Ultimately, we won't find out one way or the other.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:21:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You have already been disproven in this. When Peter Spiegel ran with the initial Schauble story in the FT, he was accused of being a waterboy for the EWG head. He took issue with that accusation. But once the alternate document was handed to him (presumably by the Greek side) he had to admit that he was taken advantage of. This lie has already been uncovered and shown for what it is by the very correspondent who blasted the Greeks in the first place. so you are incorrect that we can't know when we do know.
by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:51:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So:

  1. A draft was made up which included the notion of "amending" the Greek programme.

  2. The Greek delegation agreed with this draft.

  3. Schäuble objected and demanded that the language concerning "amendment" be struck out.

  4. He then left the unfinished meeting, assuming that the Greeks were in agreement with his all-the-same major and essential edit.

It sounds like Schäuble has little experience of all-night EU negotiation marathons. Perhaps Germany should be represented by someone with a little more gravitas.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It sounds like Schäuble has little experience of all-night EU negotiation marathons. Perhaps Germany should be represented by someone with a little more gravitas.
.

That is ... priceless.
"Ohne Worte" ... as we say in Germany.

by DerFriederich on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 08:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, one is left speechless by the grace and patience that the Greek team has shown in dealing with a bumbling fool with delusions of adequacy like Stasi 2.0.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:57:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. I remember a conversation last year with a fellow LSE European Studies alumni who happened to be Franco-German and bending over backwards to paint Germany as the ultimate ununderstood, underloved good guys. According to him, they so wanted to do right as they loved us (he meant mostly the French, but also the rest of Europe) but they desperately needed to be told that we too loved them and confrontation would always fail because of that.

I retorted with some Weidmann and Schauble quotes and actions and he replied that "well, yes, of course, agec has caught up with Schauble and he is now rather senile".
As for Weidmann "well, sure, he is an insane sociopaths, but he is just one person in 18" (it was indeed 18 at the time).

Right, you may pause. With both the head of the Bundesbank and the finance minister identified as senile or sociopathically insane, adding a prime minister who is ready to do ANYTHING, including enforcing policies that causes dozens of daily deaths in Greece alone, if it helps her score domestic political points, I find it hard to call the German establishment fundamentally good and loving at heart. I reckon his existential need to see France and Germany as naturally together was a key driver to want to believe so.

But the fact remained that even someone so desperate to delude himself that everything was well with the German leadership had to call Schauble senile in order to avoid seeing him as evil.

I am indeed impressed that Varoufakis managed to keep so much cool after spending so much time with that sorry excuse for a man.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:25:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I recently ran across a bio on him with this quote:

Wolfgang Schäuble: Merkel's Euro bad cop - The Local

His biographer Peter Schütz calls him the "most honest man" he knows, "even if he's not always the most charming."

Yeah, just don't ask him about certain personal slush funds for Helmut Kohl. Or the intellectual honesty of his career as serial intellectual arsonist (spanning the subjects of immigrants, law-and-order measures and Southern European countries).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:18:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Afew is being tongue-in-cheek to expose the nonsense of Schäuble's faked indignation. But I am not when I call Schäuble geistiger Brandstifter. (And he's been at it at least since 2005.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:24:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the phrase "shooting from the hip" comes to mind, but given the circumstances, i should be banned for thinking that. And it would indeed be indecent of me, if it weren't for the damage this man causes.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:33:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We should indeed all feel sorry that Stasi 2.0 was put in a wheelchair by an assassination attempt.

It would have been ever so much better for humanity if he had been put in a morgue.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't find this funny. And anyway there are other sociopaths who would take his place.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was also true for bin Laden, but people still cheered when he bit it.

If I could trade one for the other, I'd rather have bin Laden. He was a better human being all around.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
people still cheered when he bit it.

I found that disgusting, too.

He was a better human being all around.

Now you're going redstar.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Schaeuble didn't want to leave a hole in the text which Greece could use to smuggle more of their demands in later on.
And that would have been perfectly reasonable if final settlement had been on the table at the time.

But final settlement is the one thing the Troika persistently refuses to put on the table. It's always demands for permanent concessions in exchange for nothing more than continuing the negotiations.

That is quite literally on the first page of the "bad faith tactics" chapter of most negotiation handbooks. And Greece gave the textbook response: Pointed out that it was a bad-faith tactic, ignored the obviously bad-faith demands, and re-anchored with their own counter.

For someone who criticizes the Greek negotiation team's tactics as much as you do, you seem to have a pretty poor grasp of even fairly elementary negotiation theory.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't negotiate that way - the point of negotiation is that participants at the very minimum clearly understand each others positions.
I hope you're not quitting your day job to apply for a position as negotiator.

Because that absolutely is the way you negotiate if you are presented with a proposal that is worse than your BATNA: State politely but firmly that the proposal on the table is not even worth discussing. Re-anchor the discussion with your own proposal. If the other guy persists in his nonsense, leave the room and execute on your BATNA.

Improving the other guy's understanding of the situation and exploring options for its mutually gainful resolution is absolutely a valid negotiating gambit. But only when there is room for mutual gain through negotiations and the other guy shows interest in negotiating.

Once it becomes clear that you are going to need to execute on your BATNA, you don't owe the other guy anything. If your BATNA is improved by keeping him in the dark (and it usually is), then you keep him in the dark.

Remember when Schaueble traveled home from that first(?) Syriza summit in late afternoon, having been assured that important points were settled and only the details were still worked on? Hours later Syriza walked back from the whole thing.
[Citation Needed]

And not from Stasi 2.0 himself.

Because, and there really isn't any parliamentary way to say this, he's been spending the last ten years doing a stellar impression of a pathologically dishonest sociopath.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 11:26:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have difficultis with the timeline

"The finale came on Friday with a last offer from the creditors - the European commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund - which represented a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum, revamping the pensions system, creating a new VAT regime, slashing the defence budget, and cutting proposed taxes on business in return for a five-month bailout extension worth €15.5bn (£11 bn).

Financial experts from both sides were still negotiating in Brussels late on Friday when the call came through from Athens ordering them to quit, Dijsselbloem said. Tsipras then went on television to announce the plebiscite."

How does that fit with:

"Three things happened Friday. 1. Greece had a proposal that converged closely with the Institutions, except for $200m extra cut for military. 2. Institutions had a proposal that walked back increase on hotels from 6% VAT to 23%. 3. The Eurogroup not only ripped up the Greek proposal, but also the Institution's proposal, and then it gave Greece an ultimatum: extend the current MoU for 6 month, but without the requisite funding to see your debt repayments, or your banking solvency"

Is the take or leave it ultimatum supposed to be 2.?

And neither the greek proposal nor any ripping up is mentioned in the guardian narrative.

by IM on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 01:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It fits if the Guardian is not bothering to distinguish between the Eurogroup and the Troika.

Maybe we should get a ((guardian)) macro to complement the ((*france24)) macro.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 02:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though I guess the lack of distinction is in this case forgivable.

Because the very fact that such a distinction is even required demonstrates that the creditors cannot be taken seriously: Not only are they speaking with two faces, the faces aren't even aligned on what they want.

So really it matters very little in practice which of Janus' faces made which proposals; it is now clear that neither had any mandate to sign a binding final settlement.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 02:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Remember when Schaueble traveled home from that first(?) Syriza summit in late afternoon, having been assured that important points were settled and only the details were still worked on? Hours later Syriza walked back from the whole thing.

I don't "remember" any such thing, since I live all of my time living outside of the German information bubble (and most of it living outside the US informatiom bubble), so I don't "remember" events based on the spin given by a politician that is a party to negotiations.

Some eurozone ministers called Tsipras's decision "bizarre" and said they were mystified about what he was trying to do.

If they live in an alternative universe where they (or their minders) believe that the ultimatum they were presenting was less bad for the Greeks than default, no wonder they were mystified by what he is trying to do ... to wit, trying to get a firm proposal from the Eurogroup / Troika melange that is superior to default.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 07:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Regarding the mindset of the MSM, here is a quote from the correspondent of the supposedly left-wing Guardian:

#Greek PM #AlexisTsipras "our only fear is fear itself" - FDR once again spicing up the otherwise wooden speeches of leftwing pols


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 04:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo:
How do you embed to Tweets on ET?

Copy the embed code supplied by Twitter. Paste into ET comment.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Lecturing" is a common excuse for shrugging off well-supported arguments that participants are unable to refute. <a href="https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel">@RaoulRuparel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/OpenEurope">@OpenEurope</a></p>— Dimitris Yannopoulos (@DimitrisY) <a href="https://twitter.com/DimitrisY/status/614776177782333440">June 27, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Strip out:

lang="xx" from blockquote and from first paragraph instruction;

dir="xxx" from p ;

entire final script line.

So it looks like this:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>"Lecturing" is a common excuse for shrugging off well-supported arguments that participants are unable to refute. <a href="https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel">@RaoulRuparel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/OpenEurope">@OpenEurope</a></p>— Dimitris Yannopoulos (@DimitrisY) <a href="https://twitter.com/DimitrisY/status/614776177782333440">June 27, 2015</a></blockquote>

Then post and hope it works.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 08:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can this be added to the user guide?-  not that I'm a twitterer...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 10:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 03:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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