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In the comment, not the diary. And I still think his implicit claim, that Germany moves into a FIDESZ/Jobbik direction, is wrong. And I have pointed out, why.
by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 08:49:13 AM EST
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IM:
but some things are rather international. And swiftly imported by right-wingers of other countries

You have certainly pointed that out.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 08:56:05 AM EST
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So?
by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:24:25 PM EST
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So do you consider Germany as one of those "other countries" or not?

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:46:52 PM EST
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Of course. So?
by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:47:44 PM EST
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In the comment, not the diary.

What kind of excuse is that? You made a general claim about me (which you should know to be wrong), not a claim about the diary body. Besides, the diary body itself contains a reference to Britain and the Netherlands... and we haven't even mentioned my supposed blindness to off-line xenophobia (incidentally, also referred to in the diary body).

This obviously never appeared to you, but the a propos of the diary was simply that I read the quoted articles in quick succession. If you have read similar pieces in French or Italian media, you are free to share them, too. (Supposing you read them like I read German media.)

Now, getting back to the subject matter: why is it that you spend so much time insulting people at a small international blog without influence, rather than fighting this new wave of xenophobia, on major German news sites or off-line?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 10:59:46 AM EST
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"Now, getting back to the subject matter: why is it that you spend so much time insulting people at a small international blog without influence"

That is our subject matter? And cheap trolling too: If I waste my time here, what are you doing here?

"rather than fighting this new wave of xenophobia, on major German news sites or off-line?"

Mere assumptions and rather vile ones too. How could you know that?

by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:15:53 PM EST
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IM:
I still think his implicit claim, that Germany moves into a FIDESZ/Jobbik direction, is wrong. And I have pointed out, why.

I haven't found in your comments where you discuss that "implicit claim" and point out why it's wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:46:05 PM EST
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by IM on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 01:00:54 PM EST
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In what way do those establish or contradict an "implicit claim" in DoDo's writing?

You do argue against the title "1930s in social media" by saying that in the '30s the racism was in the (German) mainstream media, which is true, (though I'd add that it's possible that the role of social media was at least partly played at the time by public meetings, rallies, beerhall meetings, youth organisations, etc). I'd agree that the 1930s parallel can be strained. However, it's not as if today's mainstream media are blameless, to take mass-circulation "news"papers like Bild for an example, or similar huge circulation outlets in the UK.

But I still don't see the Fidesz/Jobbik "implicit claim", or your refutation of it.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Aug 11th, 2015 at 03:24:38 PM EST
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The parallel to the 1930s may be strained, but it's also a headline in Heinrich Schmitz's "capitulation": Eine Kapitulationserklärung: Seite 2 - Vieles erinnert an die 1930er Jahre.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 04:06:49 AM EST
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Understandable in his Situation, but still wrong.

He is rightly worried that his petition only draws 55.000 supporters, but in the flood of online petitions that is still a good number.

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 05:53:27 AM EST
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He doesn't talk about the 1930s because his petition is not getting enough support. Or not principally. The reference to the 1930s is about something else. First DoDo's "reluctance of personal friends to take risks against the angry mob". And then
Es sind ja auch nur die leeren Flüchtlingsheime die brennen, nicht unsere Häuser. Und wenn als nächstes die Flüchtlinge selbst brennen, dann geht uns das doch gar nichts an. Wir gucken lieber DSDS und außerdem fängt nächste Woche ja die Bundesliga wieder an. ,,Lass mich doch in Ruhe mit Deinem Politkram, uns tut doch niemand was. Übertreib doch nicht. Die Gefahr sind doch nicht die besorgten Bürger, die Gefahr ist der Islam, der Ami, der Jude, der Euro, der Fremde."
Ja, mit Ausnahme von Euro, DSDS und Bundesliga, wird man Ähnliches in den 30er Jahren auch gehört haben.
It's only empty refugee homes to burn, not our houses. And when next the refugees themselves burn, it will also be none of our concern. We prefer to watch DSDS ["Germany's got Talent" (?)] and moreover the Bundesliga bagins next week. "Leave me in peace with your politics, nobody is doing anything to us. Don't overreact. The danger is not the 'concerned citizens', but Islam, the American, the Jew, the Euro, the foreigner"."
Yeah, with the exception of the Euro, talent shows and the Bundesliga, one would have heard very similar things in the 1930s.


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 06:42:55 AM EST
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"We prefer to watch DSDS ["Germany's got Talent" (?)] and moreover the Bundesliga bagins next week. "

High brow nonsense. I bet there are a lot of refugee helpers who watch cheap Entertainment, includng Football. Perhaps even together with refugees. Who after all are human beings too and not just abstractions.

"It's only empty refugee homes to burn, not our houses. And when next the refugees themselves burn, it will also be none of our concern."

Well, not in my name.

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 07:11:51 AM EST
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You do argue against the title "1930s in social media" by saying that in the '30s the racism was in the (German) mainstream media, which is true,

And that mainstream media in most european countries would never take the positions it did take in thirties is a qualitative difference.

 (though I'd add that it's possible that the role of social media was at least partly played at the time by public meetings, rallies, beerhall meetings, youth organisations, etc).

Different expressions of the same underlaying ideology. But the expressions you mentioned demand a lot more engagement. Another qualitative difference.

 "I'd agree that the 1930s parallel can be strained."

Or is simply wrong.

 "However, it's not as if today's mainstream media are blameless, to take mass-circulation "news"papers like Bild for an example, or similar huge circulation outlets in the UK."

Again, much worse in the nineties. Especially if we look at not just Bild, but also e. g. Spiegel.

"But I still don't see the Fidesz/Jobbik "implicit claim", or your refutation of it. "

If you don't want to see...

by IM on Wed Aug 12th, 2015 at 06:03:43 AM EST
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