Edmund Burke for Socialists | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

I suspect the American Revolution (none / 1)

was more to his liking for a number of reasons, first of which would be that it was, at root, a bourgeois "revolution," in that it was, as Robespierre might say, a revolt against a king so as to put into its place a new king (or, as would finally evolve, a new president) drawn from the same overarching elite. Zinn's People's History is a good place to see just how the American "Revolution" was very much a revolt of the elite, and as is usual in American history, the elite's interests are served with the blood of the poor and paid for by the lesser gentry, middle classes or whatever the historical equivalent is in context. And, Burke was not the only Conservative to have such sympathies, certainly Louis XVI, in deed, shared them, of course prior to being subject to Robespierre's divine Justice.

1789 Paris was a completely different matter, Robespierre himself distinguishes this revolt not as one to replace a tyrant with another, but to replace it with Virtue. And here, what is meant by Virtue to Robespierre (and others) is the starting point, though it is of no interest to an Edmund Burke or other Conservative commentators of the time (and there were many).

Speaking, of course, as a mere enthusiast of history, of course.

by John Redmond on Thu May 26th, 2016 at 10:55:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Place and Time of the American Revolution (none / 1)

At that time the American Revolution could hardly have been other than a rebellion of the elites. While the American Colonies may have been among the most widely literate places of its time a systematic education was still the almost sole province of the elite. If even half of the total population was minimally literate, it was mostly due to parents, usually wives, teaching the children to read and the most common, usually the only book in the house was the Bible.

The French Revolution was, initially, led by elites, including some from the 1st and 2nd Estates. And the vast majority of delegates to the National Assembly of the Estates General were business and professional people such as Robspierre and Danton, while Mirabeau was a count and Sant Just was descended from a noble family. Even Les Enragés were well educated. I don't know the circumstances from which Jacques Roux came, but he was a priest. Probably the closest to a lower class origin was the actress Claire Lacombe, as actresses then were often considered to be little better than prostitutes.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu May 26th, 2016 at 12:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Understood. (4.00 / 2)

As regards 1789-1794, I would agree that most of the leaders were from higher social strata; underneath, there was insurrection though, bubbling through, and the sans culottes made their voices heard, to simplify, ultimately via Robespierre and his early allies Danton Marat and Saint Just among a few others.

But the power base of the Revolution at that time was from below, especially from 1792 forward. The Girondins, the initial power base of lower local gentry and city bourgeoisie, were defeated and then arrested with this popular support, and the Revolution really got interesting, speaking again of course as an enthusiast of history.

by John Redmond on Thu May 26th, 2016 at 12:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understood. (4.00 / 3)

...speaking again of course as an enthusiast of history.

John, I am much more an enthusiast of history than a professional historian. As a beginning grad student I was concerned about my lack of breadth and I was fortunate enough to have been chosen as the graduate reader for the new French History Professor's series of courses in French History, which consisted of six courses of three semester hours each. For those I read an average of six books each, took the course myself and graded the undergraduates according to the professor's key. I probably retained as much from the lectures as I got from the readings.

Similarly with English history and Russian history. It was the National Schools period of American college curriculum, with all of the attendant problems. For Russian History I had already had an excellent series by a much better Yale educated professor while an undergrad in physics, as accompaniment to two years of Russian language. The Russian history professor was a Stanford educated neo-con who also graded the athletes' papers himself. He was a cold warrior and I was advised that declining to grade his courses would be bad for my career. It turned out that the history department as a whole was bad for my career.

I don't regret any of it, but wish I had had the sense to transfer to a better university, one more open to alternative views. The attitudes of the Russian and English History professors at the U. of Arizona were that the only thing worse than the total incomprehension most students displayed for ideas from the left was that I not only understood them immediately but actually embraced them. They considered themselves guardians at the gate of academe.

So I hardly consider myself a professional historian and I made my way in the world based on my Physics B.S. and attitude. For the next twenty years of so I spent more effort on anthropology and psychology than on history, but resumed my reading in the early '80s.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu May 26th, 2016 at 01:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just as an aside... (4.00 / 2)

I only insist on the "enthusiast of history" line in order to dispel (whatever for?) any doubts one might have regarding political sympathies, partisanship and the like...

by John Redmond on Fri May 27th, 2016 at 09:45:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Place and Time of the American Revolution (4.00 / 2)

There were quite a few "commoners" involved in the US Revolution from the start, whether in the Sons of Liberty, the Green Mountain Boys, or the militias (especially in the Carolinas and the western parts of Pennsylvania and New York), and word of what the Revolution was about spread pretty readily, but when these folks tried to make the Revolution actually apply to themselves, the elites smacked them down hard.

by rifek on Fri May 27th, 2016 at 02:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Place and Time of the American Revolution (none / 1)

But all the leaders were and had to be literate. Basic literacy was adequate to be the leader of a platoon, but it was important to be able to read written dispatches. The higher we go up the ranks the more important a good education became. That is why the leaders came from families that could afford to send them to school - for the most part. That could include a prosperous farmer, but, unless they had moved further onto the frontier after growing up in a more settled area and took their education with them, the frontiersmen were less likely to be 'well educated'. That said, they may will have valuable skills and knowledge that cannot be gained in school. And there were a number of self educated who had read widely in available books, but they had to be able to get the books somehow.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri May 27th, 2016 at 03:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Place and Time of the American Revolution (none / 1)

Power disparity in the American colonies grew slowly, because land was cheap and labour dearly expensive. Hence the outright slavery and sensitivity to tea or stamp taxes. So the colonial societies were rather egalitarian, ignoring slavery. The founding religious and social projects were hard to manage, hardly anything went according to intentions.

by das monde on Tue May 31st, 2016 at 02:02:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edmund Burke for Socialists | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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