LQD: Brexodus has begun | 33 comments (33 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

I came across this the other day, from last year's August:

Would you pick fruit and veg for very low pay? No? We have a problem - the Guardian

In a recent report, the chairman of a large produce firm, said that "no British person wants a seasonal job working in the fields. They want permanent jobs or jobs that are not quite as taxing physically."
So companies like this rely on up to 70,000 foreign workers to pick, sort and pack fruit and vegetables. They are more willing to get their hands dirty for low pay. The same is the case in many other British industries. Not many of us want to be employed cleaning up a slaughter house, for example, so eastern European workers are vital.
But this arrangement is now seriously at risk following the Brexit vote. The British Growers Association has warned that if these seasonal workers are not given special permits to enter the country, the whole industry will be in dire straits. Labour shortages would probably force producers to close or relocate overseas.
This might seem like just another economic problem. But it holds implications for national security according to Erica Consterdine from the University of Sussex's Centre for Migration Research. For her, the failure to consider the importance of these foreign seasonal workers in a post-Brexit world means that "it's looking pretty bad in terms of the security of the food supply chain. It would be disastrous."

by Bjinse on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 07:00:39 AM EST

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

The Conversation - Caroline Nye - The real reasons why British workers won't pick fruit

Farmers are used to looking into the future. Their livelihoods depend on taking a decent guess about everything from the weather to market forces. But a recent survey reveals that a new level of uncertainty looms on the horizon for post-Brexit farming in Britain.
Many in the survey said they were experiencing increased difficulty in recruiting seasonal workers since the EU referendum. Some suggested these labour shortages could result in a decrease in domestic food production followed by inflated prices of some produce caused by a total reliance on imports.
These shortages are not the result of any enforced changes in legislation, as Brexit negotiations have yet to be completed. This means that even if something like the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme (SAWS) (which enabled a set quota of Eastern European workers to come and work on labour-short farms) is reintroduced, the industry might still be in hot water.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 11:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (4.00 / 2)

An FB friend posted this comment in response to this essay;-

In order to get British unemployed workers to do seasonal work like fruit picking, the following five reforms would have to take place:

The entire benefits system would have to be radically altered to allow people to sign off and sign on again easily and without sanctions.

The in-work benefits system (housing benefit, tax credits, child tax credits) would have to be radically altered to allow someone who was registered at a specific address for most of the year to be able to keep their home at that address over the period during which they were temporarily housed elsewhere near the cropland/orchards.

Farmers would have to pay their seasonal workers enough so that doing a season's work picking fruit would be financially attractive to British workers. And would likely have to schedule their picking work into 40-hour weeks with two days off.

Government would have to come up with some real, solid incentives to benefit anyone who's willing tp spend a season picking fruit, besides the ability to save up a nice little packet of money.

Supermarkets would have to stop the practice of screwing farmers down so that supermarkets maximise profits for themselves and minimise profits for farmers, with knock-on effects on farm labourer wages.

And finally: Consumers would have to accept that if you want fresh fruit in season, hand-picked by British workers, it's going to be expensive.
More expensive than when fruit is picked by migrant workers who aren't being paid minimum wage.
As none of these reforms are at all likely, I anticipate that one of the knock-on effects of Brexit is either even more illegal immigrants working under highly adverse conditions to which government enforcers turn a blind eye because "everyone knows" we need them: or else, the complete collapse of most farming that requires seasonal picking labour; even more food imported from overseas.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 11:45:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

If the pound goes down, the relative cost of hiring workers in Britain compared to importing, also goes down. And if it is a hard Brexit with customs on agricultural produce that passes the channel the relative cost of hiring in Britain goes down even more.

The political changes on the other hand, well that doesn't sound likely to happen.

by fjallstrom on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 02:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

The cost of hiring doesn't go down relative to the UK economy.

Minimum wage remains minimum wage, and local produce remains local produce with local margins. The numbers only change if the produce is for export (mostly not) or if workers are hired from abroad because locals won't do the work (possible, but increasingly expensive.)

Just because import tariffs make foreign food more expensive doesn't mean the local economy grows automatically to take up the slack. There's still the possibility of a dead zone in which affordable local prices don't cover costs even as foreign prices become completely unaffordable.

This has the makings of a complete market failure. Combine an impoverished population which can't afford to pay a realistic price for food, with farmers who can't afford to stay in business without subsidies (nonexistent) or cheap labour (also nonexistent), and the most likely outcome is bankrupt farmers and food shortages.

The worst case is an authoritarian dictatorship which forces people to work on farms at gun point. Worryingly, this may be the only practical way to solve the problem - short of an even more extreme measure, such as cancelling Brexit.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 03:25:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

The problem with forcing people to work on farms (more likely at risk of losing benefits) is that there's still no housing or transport. It would end up just as expensive as doing things properly, although the compulsion/punishment of the unemployed aspect would probably appeal to the authoritarians

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 05:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Housing (none / 1)

Where does the influx of seasonal workers that have been working in the UK currently stay?

In the Netherlands there have been a few nasty schemes of farming companies that included (compulsory) housing and meals for seasonal workers at the farm were they working, and that proceeded to rip seasonal workers off by withholding up to 90 percent of their paycheck as compensation...

by Bjinse on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 10:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Housing (none / 1)

they live in doss houses or tents. Thanks to austerity local councils simply haven't got the staff to chase up rogue landlords, especially out in the country. And nobody cares about migrant labour anyway.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 04:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Housing (none / 1)

Could be worse. Look at those North Koreans who are 'sent out' by their government to work on Polish fields.

I hear that compensation rip off is done by a lot of model agencies.

_{Schengen is toast!}

by epochepoque on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 08:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DICTION CORNER (none / 0)

corvée

ahem

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Jul 5th, 2017 at 09:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (4.00 / 3)

Even before coming to such extremes, it looks like domestic food will become more expensive without much relief from imported food that will be more expensive too.

Net effect: Most people will have to spend a higher - sometimes much higher - share of their income for food. Other expenses will have to be cut, such has vacation jaunts in the Canaries or Ibiza, not to mention farther flung destinations. Easy Jet and other carriers will suffer along with Cook, Thomson and other travel businesses.

Looks like a more frugal life ahead, like it was for most Britons in the 1950s and 60s...

by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 06:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

Another way is to mostly eat chips.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jul 3rd, 2017 at 06:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

Community and private gardens will likely bloom.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 8th, 2017 at 05:35:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

Due to ridiculous land prices, gardens are generally handkerchief sized.

And the poorer and more likely to be needy the person, the smaller the amount of land likely to be available to them. Growing some herbs on a window ledge may be the realistic option

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 9th, 2017 at 01:12:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

Only marginally relevant to the particular discussion of modern British conditions, but still ...

There have been times and places in the past where it was simply not profitable for market-oriented farmers to pay for labor. This led to rather rapid shifts to smaller owner-operated farms, where family labor was highly motivated to work their own farm because they actually profited from their own labor.

Not terribly likely in the modern situation, for all the reasons mentioned elsewhere in the thread. I'd also like to toss out compulsory schooling as another reason for the decline in willingness to do farm labor. People get used to living and working in a certain way, and for kids who are used to being imprisoned indoors for 8 hours a day most of the year, the transition to working outside is just a bridge too far.

by Zwackus on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 12:12:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

Compulsory schooling has been the rule in France since the end of 19th century while at the same time the majority of the population was living in rural areas (until the 1950s that is). School has not prevented children from helping the parents with farm work and teachers knew quite well that most children would miss school during several days at harvest time; they just adapted without much fuss.

by Bernard (bernard) on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 07:30:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

Yes but the gradual rise of the average school leaving age has removed an important cohort from the market for low paid, low qualifications labour. Seasonal labour has been less effected because long summer holidays for 2nd. and 3rd. level students has provided a supply for such labour, but seasonal labour that falls out side of of school holidays - e.g. September/October harvests - has been more effected.

Also, it is one thing for students to slum it for a couple of months in the summer doing manual work and living in dingy accommodation - we've (nearly) all done it - and quite another thing to aspire to such work as a career. In my experience (in the 1970's) such work was nearly always done by foreign (including a lot of Irish) students in the UK and wasn't the done thing for British students who seemed to have grants or other reasons for not having to tolerate a subsistence living.

It would require a huge social transformation in the UK for such work to become acceptable for middle class UK students again, especially if foreign students are also discouraged from attending UK colleges by higher (relative) fees and /or onerous visa requirements. At the moment even subsistence UK wages are attractive if you come from a very low wage economy like Romania, but if the value of Sterling falls much further and the economy in Romania improves, that attractiveness could diminish very rapidly.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 08:20:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (4.00 / 2)

Same in the US due to Der Drumpfenfuehrer's War on Immigrants, especially Latinos. Crops didn't get planted, and they doubly aren't going to get harvested. Also, most of the roofers, siders, and drywallers in residential construction have gone to ground, not to mention lawn care and maid service workers.

by rifek on Tue Jul 4th, 2017 at 04:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

Compared to LA, having your lawn tended by a gardener in Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA is stunningly more expensive. $40-$50/week or more here vs. $40/month in LA. So I do it myself. Likewise for installing irrigation systems underground, etc.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 8th, 2017 at 05:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 1)

(There is NO cheap Latino labor available in whitey white northern Arkansas.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 8th, 2017 at 05:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seasonal workers (none / 0)

I thought that lawns in California were tended by green paint.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sat Jul 8th, 2017 at 06:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LQD: Brexodus has begun | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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