14 - 20 August 2017 | 126 comments (126 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 0)

Did the University of Virginia actually give this group of crazies a permit for the torchlight parade? If so, why should they be surprised at the chants of "We will not be replaced by Jews!" Some serious consideration of the common sense, if any, of the current University Administration needs to follow from the State of Virginia. The organizers HAD to have planned for this to be deeply offensive to those they despise. As a public hazard that procession was tantamount "to crying 'FIRE' in a crowded auditorium." Had that not been opposed, the next time these worthies would have been chanting for killing their most hated minorities and not with polite descriptors.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 03:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 0)

The city of Charlottesville permitted Unite the Right ("alt-right") rally. Reports I read Sun, 13 Aug, two days after commencement of rally commencement parade 11 Aug, estimated 6,000 "alt-right" congregation. My source was Metafilter: I tracked linked stories about the vehicular homicide of pedestian by-stander/counterprotester to the Daily Progress. She was crushed between two parked cars by the perp.

I skimmed quite a few, faulty dox initiatives in the process, including but not limited to permit holder's identification with UVA alumni.

Since then, Sunday, I have noted with interest and no surprise that commentators have embellished facts of events that weekend with isolated black-hooded anarchist-like property destruction and altercations between fiendish demonstrators and provocateurs. As is the custom. Since, like, Haymarket.

Definitely earlier. But I would digress.

I don't need GOOG.

Collectively, BLM fits the bill of PROVOCATEUR issued by Central Casting, because. 2,700+ comments by freakishly ignorant "citizen journalists" can't be wrong. I added that thread to demonstrate "confirmation bias" of "race relations" in the US, "real-time".

So. Trump entertains mutually assured destruction by "home-grown" terrorists. How did Mr Obama conclude Charlotte, SC mass murder by the "lone wolf" terrorist? I forget.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 06:31:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 0)

Thanks for the summary. I missed most of the details early and didn't trust my impressions too much. From your Metafilter link:

On 11 August 2017, alt-right protesters surrounded counter-demonstrators standing in a ring around the Thomas Jefferson statue at UVA in Charlottesville, VA. This was a preamble to the main Unite the Right rally, taking place today. ACLU Virginia is present and posting updates via Twitter.

That confirms my impression that the whole thing started with the torchlight parade at UVa with the chants. I missed that protestors had been surrounded by the marchers and their associates by the statue. That was not well elucidated on PBS News over the weekend.

Later the article indicates that the UVA had sent an email that approved the rally and that they have been criticized for so doing. The NYT has a piece up on the role of the ACLU and the criticism it has taken. I do like the response of the University of Texas official who said of open carry advocates that, should they come onto campus to hold a demonstration they would be arrested as they are not a part of the University Community. That contrasts very favorable with the UVa actions and is actually a very sensible position. The commenter rightly notes that Universities should have plans to deal with such situations - especially with those not done by their students.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 08:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 1)

I've no idea why you fixate on UVA responsibility for UNITTE THE RIGHT rally permit, when I've told you that the city issued the permit, opening the door to 6,000 radicals.

I've spent some time in Ch'ville, because one of my college roommates stettled there. I visited. I would not. It's a bullshit small town, notwithstanding Tho. Jefferson's legacy of bullshit federal-democratic central government in the canon of US American democratic ideals. Which left plenty room for his despotic competition with rivals and aristotlian philosophy of agrarian "good life" in executive offices.

I read AP GOVERNENT. Wilson and Diulio (13th Ed) with my daughter. Because empirical "political science".

Before this, my college roommate was appalled that I wandered one dawn to photograph the agrarian landscape ringing Ch'ville and came home alive.

Richmond was the capitol of the confederacy, let's not forget. Virginians haven't to this day. But DNC's PR apparatus in recent years would like to cast the pop "liberal", which no one, I promise you, in the DMV believes, regardless of their GSE contractor employment status. Only comparative"NoVA. The state is that red, despite DNC propaganda supporting Fed candidates. Swanson agrees.

2. The racists who have begun coming to Charlottesville to campaign for governor, garner attention, threaten violence, engage in violence, and commit murder are almost all from outside Charlottesville, and extremely unwelcome here. Charlottesville is a slightly left-of-center, Democratic Party area. Most people don't rally for good causes or against bad ones. Most people don't want the Lee statue taken down. (Or at least they didn't until it became a gathering point for neo-Confederates.) Most people want other memorials added to public space to diversify. And most people don't want white supremacists coming to town with their hatred and their violence.

UVA venue for UNITE THE RITE opposition around a flag was a sideshow of a profound cultural dissemblanc , causa belli. What you might like to do is verify anarchy.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 09:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 0)

I was just trying to sort out how this began - at UVa with that grotesque parade with torches. And I know that there must have been planning on the part of the Unite the Right people. IMO the University should have invoked the same principle as cited by UT admins and just have moved to arrest them for demonstrating on the campus when they were not part of the university community.

And I am well aware that Cash's description of the locals in

The Mind of the South still applies, especially to those drawn to Unite the Right. It does seem that the portion of southerners who fit that description is significantly smaller these days, but that fact only serves to make those who remain more fervid in their defense of those views.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 01:45:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "What about the alt-left (none / 0)

The University of Virginia (U.Va. or UVA), frequently referred to simply as Virginia, is a public research university and the flagship for the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Public institutional status (tax funded income, in whole or in part) differentiates private establishments in education AND commercial enterprise. The business of very public funded enterprise in the USA is subject to de minimis compliance tests with US constitutional or federal, not state, enforcement including but not limited to 1st Amd civil rights.

My clever neandertal and denisovan allele-bearing cousins have fixated on these public criteria to identify test case petitions and litigate alleged unconstitutional race-factor discrimination ("preference", "bias") by admissions officers' compliance with EEOC statute and agency regulation. Because 1st Amd. clause, case law, "freedom of association" may lawfully permit someone to discriminate application of civil rights under supreme law of the land, especially 14th and 15th Amd.

U.S. digital rights group slams tech firms for barring neo-Nazis

Today, few "civil rights" advocates are willing or able to define any limit to free speech, much less imperative speech inciting or commanding actual violence.

That's how fucked up US "society" is, because founding vaters never intended unity.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Ima guess, because my professional experience orchestrating premium merchandising for promotional events counts for shit among eurotrib subscribers who also have no idea how anyone, especially, Louis Farakhan could organized a Million [Man] March ("meme" [!!!]) in the USA.

Price of RT transportation to the site includes one tiki torch (Made in China). Bring Your Own Lighter (BYOL).

yo.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 06:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Did lots of the Unite the Right protesters arrive by charter bus? What I noticed was that all the torches I saw seemed identical. That suggests they were provided by the organizers and those organizers could also have chartered the buses. And it certainly was no surprise to me that Louis Farakhan could organize the 'Million Man March', nor would it surprise people at ET, IMO. We all should have known that since MLK's memorable appearance on the on the National Mall for the 'I have a dream' speech - unless blinded by racial bigotry.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 08:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Indeed. Bus --mass transit par excellence-- is how black folk have traveled US America, because price, because "fierce urgency of now". We were both seasoned adults in '95, ARG. But how you or I recall the effort to assemble peacefully (1st Amd) in D.C., to instantiate protest of gov't sanctined abridgements of civil rights (from abortion to voting, housing, employment) varies wildly, I'll warrant. It was a "thing" in '95 unknown since '63, '53. Subsequently, Farakhan's "entrepreneurial" accomplishment --which was specifically to instantiate the POLITICAL AGENCY of black men in apartheid USA-- was crucified by MSM for at least a decade, because his "anti-semiticism".

How Spike Lee's `Bus' Trumped The Million Man March (2010 ->1996-> 1995)

The Internet was young in those days, so men mainly got wind of the march through church, their favorite watering hole or the barbershop, which is where I first heard about it.
[...]
My bus had a mixture of young and old heads on board. There was some singing, a lot of debating, but no violence. Cursing was not allowed on the bus, and at least one person was taken to task for firing up a joint (we may not have known what kind of party it was, but we knew it wasn't that kind of party). We were all bracing for a life-changing experience, but when we got to D.C., there was no itinerary; we were on our own.

MSM subsequently adopted q Million [*] March events standard.

Ask yourself, "SELF, why don't I know how many of 6,000 estimated UNITE TO RITE protesters? Did all 6,000 arrive in passenger cars and park at UVA lots? Is 6,000 or 1,000 less than one million? Is there video?"

It didn't happen, if there's no video.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 09:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Well, travel by bus, such as Greyhound or Continental Trailways, has substantially collapsed in the USA in the last 20 years. I saw many abandoned former bus terminals in LA before I left and have found there is no regularly scheduled bus service in Mountain Home, Ar. This was why I expected that how ever many Unite the Right demonstrators came, they mostly came by charter bus. The parking would have been a problem indeed. Though some may have come by car and stayed in motels. Were anyone actually interested in investigating the details of the episode the chartering of buses would likely be a good place to start.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Aug 20th, 2017 at 04:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

How many ET subscribers have ridden a bus to protest domestic or federal (EP) legislation in "Brussels"?

How many ET subscribers have ridden a passenger car (sole use or "car pool") to protest domestic or federal (EP) legislation in "Brussels"?

I wouldn't know. The comment history does not obtain.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:30:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 1)

The lack of European media and relative powerlessness of the parliament means that popular pressure is better applied to state capitals were you can target your legaslative and executive with demands for the executive voting no in the council and more importantly getting the media attention. Having demonstrations in one state capital and media attention makes it easier to get media's attention to demonstrations on the same issue in neighbouring states.

Then you work with allies in the EP when the parliamentarians see that the issue is important in their home state.

Or at least that is how I remember the reasoning behind the campaign to stop ACTA.

by fjallstrom on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 11:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Thank you for this information. It does not however answer my question.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 06:56:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

I doubt that many here have demonstrated outside the European Parliament for the simple reason that most of us would have difficulty remembering the EP doing anything of consequence; good, bad, or indifferent. Power in the EU is still overwhelmingly wielded in national capitals, something the Brexiteers never wished to acknowledge, because that would have meant acknowledging that all the things they blamed Brussels for had in fact been tacitly or explicitly endorsed if not actually spearheaded by their own government. Brussels has been a convenient scapegoat for the UK, little more.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 09:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

Thank you for this information. It does not answer my question, How many ET subscribers have ridden a bus to protest domestic or federal (EP) legislation in "Brussels"?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 09:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "How were the torches obtained" (none / 0)

I know I have, but I don't know how many have. I also don't now what entitles you to this information. We don't encourage personalised political discourse or "lefter than thou" moral posturing or superiority here.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 09:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"entitles you to this information" (none / 0)

I am an interested party to EU um democractic processes, no more or less exercising "moral posturing or superiority" than you have by promoting "Booman" election to an office of public trust in the USA.

Are you, personally, a US citizen?

Don't answer that question! "We" know, I ought respect your anonymity in all matters relating democratic franchise to praxis everywhere. Especially Tunisia and Morocco.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 11:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "entitles you to this information" (none / 0)

Thank you for this information

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 11:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "entitles you to this information" (none / 0)

I'm not sure how reaching out to Booman in his disillusion at his pundit role and suggesting their might be another way of dealing with his anger and frustration at political developments in the US constitutes "moral posturing or superiority" and I am sure he didn't take it in that spirit as he recommended my diary - something he almost never does. However YMMV.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Aug 19th, 2017 at 09:18:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

secrecy (none / 0)

is of utmost importance in evaluating the number of and solidarity of "social democrats" worldwide. There is no safety in numbers according to the Law of Large Numbers, if most respondents to a survey refuse to identify their actual participation in protest, or participation in grievance of state governance, by assembly or ballot.

Is your legal name truly "Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Aug 18th, 2017 at 09:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]"? Reconsider your privilege to adopt one or more pseudonyms and ISP proxies. This strategy could forestall retaliatory action by USA agents.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sat Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: secrecy (4.00 / 2)

I have always assumed that, should they be interested, 'US Agents' could quickly identify ARGeezer and any of the commenters at ET or elsewhere. The only thing bought is that they would not be able to use this information in court until after they had obtained a warrant to obtain it legally. But I rather doubt that I would ever be considered worth such an investigation, and, if I were so considered, there is much that could be done to discomfort me without ever bothering with the courts.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Aug 20th, 2017 at 04:40:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

14 - 20 August 2017 | 126 comments (126 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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