Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Brexiteers fear price rises, not return of Irish border - Politico.eu
Few things are likely to change the minds of the British public on Brexit -- and the Irish border almost certainly isn't one of them.

While the debate in Westminster, Brussels and Dublin is now almost solely focused on efforts to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, most U.K. citizens appear largely apathetic. According to an exclusive poll for POLITICO by the consultancy Hanbury Strategy, they are far more concerned about the possible effect Brexit will have on prices in the shops.

But less than 22 percent of these voters said that the creation of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would shift their stance on Brexit, while 42 percent said that it was unlikely to.
by Bernard on Fri Nov 9th, 2018 at 07:22:10 PM EST
if they don't understand what something means, how can they be concerned about it.

This has been a proble all the way through the process, right from when Cameron first mooted the idea of the referendum. Almost nobody really understood what was at stake let alone what the sticking points or the issues were.

Nor did anybody ever explain it to them. In fact, how could anybody explain it, simply because nobody in either campaign really understood it either. Not that the campaign was ever about the facts of membership, just the psychodram between Cameron and Boris.

So, we are at a point, with 6 months to go, with a foreign secretary who doesn't realise that Britain is an island which imports an awful lot of food from that mysterious place just across a sea he's discovered he's named the Channel.

We also have a minister for Ulster in charge of sorting out the border who doesn't know the difference between Unionists and republicans.

And a Cabinet which, collectively, doesn't know its arse from its elbow


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 9th, 2018 at 08:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why should British people care about a border in Ireland, or one down the Irish sea for that matter. It will, quite literally make no difference to them, unless it leads to a return of IRA terrorism on the "mainland". This is only a major issue because the DUP have made it so, and May is also ideologically committed to the "Union".

It is the UK government, at the behest of the DUP, which has sought to leverage the border issue as a means to leverage a deal from the EU whereby the whole of the UK can remain, at least temporarily, within the Customs Union, thereby angering both Brexiteers and Remainers, and leaving the EU27 queasy about the implications.

But as Newton Emerson asks:

What is the point of being inside the EU's customs union but outside its single market?

That is the proposition UK prime minister Theresa May is about to try and sell to her cabinet, parliament and the country: a UK-wide backstop to ensure there is no hard border in Ireland should the UK and the EU not agree a trade deal after Brexit.

Many within her Conservative Party and beyond believe the backstop likely to come into effect, and will be permanent if it does.

---<snip>---

May's backstop is essentially the Turkey option, which few have ever seriously advocated. Turkey cannot strike trade deals, yet still faces non-tariff barriers to EU markets - the worst of both worlds for a Brexit sold on a free-trade vision.

Although Labour and the Conservatives have reasons for wanting out of the single market in particular, both find those reasons awkward to promote.

The Conservatives want to be seen to have regained control of immigration - this is said to be May's personal bottom line. Labour wants the freedom to nationalise and subsidise industry. Each cause is too flawed and contentious to justify an overall Brexit policy. So instead, both parties are implying they want to leave the EU in its entirety but might have to stay in the customs union to avoid a hard border in Ireland.

This is no way to sell the English a Turkey. Surveys consistently show a majority of Brexit voters, overwhelmingly in England, would ditch Northern Ireland for a full EU departure - not a sentiment Westminster can disregard for ever.

Officially the British government is aiming for a Border solution that will allow the whole UK, including Northern Ireland, to leave the customs union and the single market. But there are doubts that this can ever be practical. If the choice comes down to an unpopular UK-wide backstop or a "proper" Brexit, Northern Ireland will be cast adrift - consigned to the backstop to the backstop, whatever that turns out to be in any withdrawal agreement.

The DUP already smell a rat.

I told you so months ago...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 9th, 2018 at 08:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Conservatives want to be seen to have regained control of immigration - this is said to be May's personal bottom line.

Brexit means Little-Englandness. A part of this -- by no means all of it -- is being, at a minimum, suspicious of foreigners.

It's not a new observation that being an island nation is a defining characteristic. If you live anywhere near a land border, intuitively you know that there's nothing all that extraordinary about being a foreigner.

I fear that most of those who voted Brexit don't like the Irish, nor even the Scots or the Welsh, come to that. Perhaps it will do the English psyche good to establish some land borders in Great Britain.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Nov 12th, 2018 at 11:09:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the average voter thought much about the implications of Brexit at all. Some Expat Brits here in Spain are still getting responses from friends and relative who voted leave like "oh, so does Brexit effect you?" !!!

Those Brits who were/are against Brexit are doing their nut here because they don't know the implications for public health benefits or the Sterling exchange rate. Most are on pensions and don't have a lot to spare and couldn't afford to move back.

A lot also don't have Spanish residency even though they have lived here for years. So they don't know the implications of becoming tax resident, or how Brexit might effect non-resident property taxes.

Of course some also voted for Brexit because there are "too many immigrants in the UK" - read brown people in England. They see themselves as expats, not immigrants to Spain. The difference is apparently a matter of skin colour, because few of them work in Spain. They have my sympathies. NOT.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Nov 12th, 2018 at 09:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've wrtten before that it is impossible to know if Theresa May is  racist but, given the policy choices she has pursued most vigorously over her years in office as Home Secretary and Prime minister, it would be hard to deny that she is happy to be seen as one.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 12th, 2018 at 10:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Xenophobic at best. But its some trick to blame the EU for Commonwealth immigration.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Nov 13th, 2018 at 12:04:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Top Diaries

Occasional Series