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But resourceful women are not particularly attractive to the men they wish to be attracted to, according to the estrus model.

Do you have any actual evidence - not anecdotal - for this? I find it doubtful that men who actually WANT to be married and have children would not be attracted to a resourceful woman. Most of my female in-laws are pretty resourceful and capable women. Overgrown, superannuated male children repel such women, and why should the woman have any confidence that such man-children will be around to help raise any children? You are assuming that married males are all pick-up artists at heart. Some are. But they usually don't stay married and are not particularly attractive even to distressed divorcees. Once burned twice shy.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 12th, 2018 at 07:21:38 PM EST
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As far as I can tell, all this nonsense is about justifying being an asshole to women. That's all: immature, sad little men justifying exploiting and abusing the damage society does to women for their own pathetic attempts at sexual gratification.

I'm very inclined to treat it as Jérôme did astrology, and just ban the bullshit from the site.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 12th, 2018 at 09:30:14 PM EST
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PUAs are like "fake news": There is much outrage against, but they give the audience what it actively wants. For better or worse.

"Gaming" maturity is their secret. At least, they know what they are doing, in contrast to intellectual creeps.

by das monde on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 03:42:25 PM EST
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China's Sheng-nu phenomenon is a vast example. The West does not put social pressure, but the same tendency is observable: the more educated and accomplished a woman is, the smaller pool of men may suit her. Self-asserted women would rather freeze their eggs than settle for a real guy from around.

Which views rely more on anecdotical evidence: that families with women as principal breadwinners are totally fine, or not at all? It is yet easier to settle maturely for a marriage than make a childbearing compromise. Divorce rates are "scarily" growing, and women initiate a great majority of them. They seem to enjoy indignation towards "subpar" husbands rather ruthlessly.

The whole demographical transition to lower birthrates has a more detailed explanation in the theory that more educated women are much more choosy and (at least) less enthusiastic with bearing children with men of about equal status. UN data says that we just reached peak baby, with significant exception in Africa only, where prospects for improving status, the living standard or marrying up are still well believable.

For the rational PUA frame on this, you may check the 25:55-33:00 part in this video. (If you continue to listen, you may learn about his marriage.)

by das monde on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 03:06:16 PM EST
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China's 'one child' policy, combined with the cultural prejudice in favor of male children, has, as predicted, produced a demographic problem with too few women in the age cohort. Naturally the resulting problems become more exacerbated the higher one goes on any metric, intelligence, socially desirable appearance, education, wealth...

I certainly will not criticize any Chinese woman for her choices regarding reproduction. That is her choice and horny males can go fuck themselves if she is not interested in them.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 05:45:42 PM EST
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for who? My child spent the summer of '16 with a Beijing family. The mother had five siblings.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 06:11:40 PM EST
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Thus "men who actually WANT to be married and have children" are too horny. Eurotrash is not particularly attractive either.

"I would rather cry in a BMW than laugh on a bicycle."

by das monde on Wed Mar 14th, 2018 at 05:41:25 PM EST
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Hippocrates, On Airs, Waters, and Places, Pt.14

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 06:26:07 PM EST
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The whole demographical transition to lower birthrates has a more detailed explanation in the theory that more educated women are much more choosy and (at least) less enthusiastic with bearing children with men of about equal status. UN data says that we just reached peak baby, with significant exception in Africa only, where prospects for improving status, the living standard or marrying up are still well believable.

So instead of children per woman decreasing evenly, you would have one group of women continuing having many children and another ot having any? Right?

Sounds totally off base to me, but it is a testable statement. Now go see if you can find data that supports your statement.

by fjallstrom on Tue Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:37:50 PM EST
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Why would you assume that "children per woman" would decrease somewhat evenly?

Comparing sizes of rich patriarchal families with families of highly successful women would be interesting  -- but I have choices on whom to work for. Is there any update on conservative versus liberal families?

In nature, females of hierarchical species typically do not reproduce evenly at all. What happens in the next 5 minutes in this video should not be surprising.

by das monde on Wed Mar 14th, 2018 at 05:21:51 PM EST
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The new Oxford Handbook of Evolution, Biology, and Society is highly recommendable.

Evolution and Human Reproduction
Section "Social Status, Wealth, and Reproduction" is what we are talking about.

Evolution, Societal Sexism, and Universal Average Sex Differences in Cognition and Behavior

contrary to most scientists' expectations, these so-called universal sex differences have been shown to be more pronounced in Western industrial societies than in most non-Western developing societies

by das monde on Sat Mar 17th, 2018 at 04:33:12 PM EST
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