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Am I to understand that eurotrib.com supports foreign "political advertising" that disparaged Bernie Sanders?
Bernie Bernedict Arnold booed by his own supporters at the DNC who he betrayed
Or eurotrib.com "reach" is limited to internet subscribers who are not US citizens?


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Feb 24th, 2018 at 07:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have something to confess, Cat: in all the time since you have been here, I don't reckon I have really understood what you wrote even once.

Initially I would try, hard, with every post. Then I realised that I had invested many hours and yet could still not say with any certainty that I had understood even one post.

So nowadays I usually check the signature after a few words when struggling and, most of the time, skip the post. Not that I have anything against you, and I regret not being able to understand, but I only have so many hours to live.

But this time I have to assume that you are addressing me, as you respond to my post. All I can say if, I don't mind engaging, but you'll need to make an effort of intelligibility.  I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say or imply.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Feb 25th, 2018 at 04:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fair enough.

I have the advantage of cumulative knowledge, historicity or "lived experience" as the children say these days, of US politics and public policy --pertaining to personal, city, state, and national events-- that some eurotrib commenters do not have. I have the advantage of formal and vernacular US-English fluency that US some eurtrib commenters do not possess.

Admitting this is not to assert my authoritative position in this context, but to agree with you that sometimes I will read US media reporting differently than eurotrib commenters. I will detect false or true statements quicker than some eurtrib commenters, and I comment in brief. That is my comment relates to my knowledge base not yours. So I frequently comment with links to third-party material which supplement information available to eurotrib readers. Do I expect readers to "click through" those links? Not immediately, if ever. Such are the limitations and contingent utility of gratuitous remarks --"memes"-- which sustain social media communications.

Having said that, here, I was responded specifically to your remarks...

Besides, it seems that Russians tried to support Sanders against Clinton...
with four (4) questions relating that conclusory statement to three (3) links to the extraordinary political activities of "real US persons" which determined "support [for] Sanders" in the USA.

You have not responded to those questions. Instead you question my coherence. Alrighty then.

Help yourself understand the language of illegal foreign political activity by reading the US Special Counsel's indictment of IRA before you comment again on the subject.


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sun Feb 25th, 2018 at 08:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
First, thanks for making a clear effort there.

I am puzzled by your questions. They seem so unrelated. For instance, why should my post imply that an event did not occur? I made no such claim.

So, if you want me to respond to that question, well, no, you are not to understand that a particular even did not occur from a statement that made no such claim.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Feb 25th, 2018 at 09:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, you did:
Besides, it seems that Russians tried to support Sanders against Clinton....
is a conclusory statement, a "claim". This claim does not refer to any facts other than your recall and opinion of Mr Sanders' repudiation of alleged illegal foreign political activities.
If Sanders had not explicitly condemned all of their actions, I would have been very uncomfortable with him, however much I liked the way he brought the political discourse leftwards.
"why should my post imply that an event did not occur?"
Your conclusory remarks do not refer to any facts which "seem" to represent either specific illegal political activity OR specific legal political activity during the US primary or general election period. Your "post" assigns significance to indeterminate events.

Events which I link (above) represent counterfactual arguments to your statement.

In fact "it seems" that "real US persons" tried to support Sanders against Clinton. There are additional factual arguments representing legitimate, contemporaneous, and significant "support" for Sanders against Clinton archived as well at eurotrib.com, not least of which are legal briefs and orders concerning Sanders' delegates litigation against DNC "political activities".

Now.

Say what you want. Respond to my comments if you will or not.

I'll not be silent on matters of measuring and assigning significance to speech, while US gov litigation against IRA seeks to define "meddling and interference" and restrict the scope of "political activity" anywhere at anytime to telecommunications produced only by "real US persons." Because I can.

Were the Special Counsel's prosecution of IRA trivial, illegal political activities to prevail here, US gov could in future indict and prosecute you, any commentary about US political candidates, and the owner(s) of eurotrib.com URL under FARA because none of you had registered your "real" persons as a foreign agent operating in the USA.

With the assistance of your national gov and EU gov statutes and law enforcement agents. Quid pro quo.

Don't think the next figure of US justice won't try.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sun Feb 25th, 2018 at 11:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Your conclusory remarks do not refer to any facts which "seem" to represent either specific illegal political activity OR specific legal political activity during the US primary or general election period. Your "post" assigns significance to indeterminate events."

You claim to have an advantage over us of a lot of cumulative knowledge, so much so that you write with the implicit assumption that people have read a whole lot of documents, so it should have been a given that you were aware of the Mueller indictments.
Which are rather more researched than articles in the press.
Since you link to them, surely you have read them.

"Events which I link (above) represent counterfactual arguments to your statement. "

No they did not. That some American people were campaigning for Sanders (would anyone suggest otherwise?) is not a counterfactual to the suggestion that Russian bots smeared Clinton while deliberately not attacking him.

Sanders himself does not seem to deny it:
"https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/21/bernie_sanders_i_did_not_know_russian_bots_were_ promoting_my_campaign_real_question_is_about_clinton.html"

As for your fantasy that an organised operation, funded by people with very clear geopolitical interests, that pretends to be a huge number of US citizens posting on all sorts of social media, is in any way similar to a website where people, who at no point pose as what they are not and only post within its confines... well, you say you won't stop because you can, so I guess there is no point in commenting...

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Feb 26th, 2018 at 12:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh. I'll let that pass.

US DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
Plaintiffs-appellants motion granted to amend the complaint is GRANTED 10 Jan 2018

archived:
case history through DEC 2017
Welding et al. v. DNC Services Corp., d/b/a [!] Democratic National Committe MAY 2017


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Feb 27th, 2018 at 02:43:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just like Cyrille, I often cannot make sense of your writings: the elliptic references to some backgrounds I obviously don't know anything about, the lengthy dissertations covering screens after screens of comment threads leaving me really confused.

And it's a crying shame because I'm sure you have very interesting things to point out to, that we've never seen from our side of the pond. But in the end, I just fail to decipher your point and I end up just skipping over your writings and moving on. Sorry.

by Bernard on Mon Feb 26th, 2018 at 08:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like Cyrille and Bernard, I too often have difficulty following the logic or relevance of your posts, Cat, and this is in no way intended as an insult or put-down. It is simply a matter of fact.

In my case it can also not be put down to a lack of familiarity with English, either formal or vernacular, although I fully accept some US idiomatic expressions may be unfamiliar to me.

Some of my issues in understanding your posts relate to content, some to style, and some to context.

In terms of context, the posts often appear to have only the most elliptical or abstruse relevance to the main topic under discussion in a diary.

In terms of content, they often reveal a detailed knowledge of a particular, sometimes obscure, and often legalistic understanding of a topic although I often don't read the documents you cite to mean what you say they mean.

In terms of style, your prose often seems needlessly complex, formal, legalistic, even pretentious. It sometimes feels you write to impress others with your superior knowledge rather than to inform, educate, or even entertain. Occasionally, your interaction with others appears to border on the arrogant or insulting.

I'm sure you don't mean it to be so, but it is important that one is aware of how one's on-line persona can come across to others who have no particular axe to grind with you and mean you nothing but the best. You may be concerned that few enough people here engage with you, and that may be part of the reason.

Writing is a form of communication and you have to try and meet your readers half-way - so that they can link their experience to yours. Coming from very different places with difference styles doesn't imply ignorance or superiority, just difference.

I think Bernard and Cyrille have been very respectful and courteous in their engagement with you and have tried to understand where you are coming from. I hope you will extend them a similar courtesy.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 27th, 2018 at 01:29:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean no offense to you, Cyrille, Bernard or anyone else.

I contribute mostly to NEWSROOM threads. Just as Oui began to contribute to DIARY topical diversity. These take me a while to read but are very informative on topics I know nothing about.

NEWROOM wasn't much populated when I returned to eurotrib, and there was some concern about site participation decline, was there not?

Adding TRUMP to the newsroom was not my doing. Did it increase volume of eurotrib site visits?

I struggle even now to imagine eurotrib-appropriate responses to TRUMP-topics other than open-ended litigation of conspiracy charges and digital advertising practices.

I have linked many primary source documents and gov websites on matters of ostensible vital interest to eutrib "context" and my own in the USA which is necessarily, culturally and politically unorthodox.

I went over this before

I read these pdf's at least once because media digests are unreliable truth-bearers. They always have been. That is the purpose of propaganda, is it not?

Does this "pretension" annoy eurotrib readers?

Canvassing daily news to populate eurotrib NEWSROOM  or OPEN THREAD and inform myself has become a habit. Nested excerpts of pdfs may well look like "lengthy dissertations covering screens after screens of comment threads leaving me really confused" on a phone.

I admit, I add related topical commentary and questions to my own diaries whether or not anyone else comments on the diary subject.

Does this "pretension" annoy eurotrib readers?

I have a lot of leisure time. I thought that obvious. I track multiple topics' developments over time as indicated when I remember to append archived links to my comments. That is not to show off. These are breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs lead to off-site track-backs. Referring builds visitor volume and sometimes reciprocal linking.

I will stop immediately since this activity is received as my sense of "superiority." It is useless.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Feb 27th, 2018 at 06:35:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for your considered response and your contributions are welcome even if some of us find them difficult to understand or engage with. Diversity is a key value for Eurotrib if we are to grow in readership and relevance.

My comment is specific to your style of engagement with other contributors and you may have wondered why so few even try to engage. Maybe you can attract new members who will find your style much more intelligible and engaging. Perhaps some of us old-timers have gotten too used to our own comfort zones.

For reason of time I focus mostly on trying to keep the front page ticking over with European specific topics.  So I can't comment on your contributions to NEWSROOM.  Many thanks for helping to keep it going. Primary sources are always to be preferred. I am not aware of any issues with the TRUMP strand there.

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say in relation to "pretentious" which relates more to style of engagement rather than content. But I have expressed it as well as I can and so will just leave it at that. Your presence here is valued and appreciated even if some of us find it very difficult to engage with you.

The thing is, Eurotrib is for all who want to participate in good faith and if you can find a way to participate here to your own satisfaction I will be more than pleased.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 27th, 2018 at 10:06:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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