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The British are not the people he needs to convince that he's being reasonable.

The people he needs to convince are his EU partners, whom he needs to not throw him under the bus come crunch time. If he can swing that, what the British think is distinctly secondary, since they don't actually have any bargaining position worth a damn.

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Therefore you will continue to see Varadker's charm offensive whenever he meets another EU leader and Ireland not straying too far from the EU consensus on anything - bar corporate taxation - Varadker's nightmare scenario is if some EU leaders start linking their support for Ireland's position on Brexit to Ireland acquiescing to their position on corporate taxation.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
archived
Ireland makes U-turn, says will collect €13 billion back taxes from Apple 7 DEC 2017

a timely reminder of promises tendered

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sat Mar 24th, 2018 at 12:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The U-Turn heading is misleading. There was never any question of Ireland not complying with an EU court ruling. All it is doing is putting the money in an escrow account pending the appeal hearing as was required by the Commission. Now if Ireland were to discontinue the appeal process - as I think they should do - that would be a U-Turn.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 08:26:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fake news?
Irish appeal of Apple ruling a `strange decision', says Moscovici Sep 2016
Ireland to join Apple in fight against EU tax ruling
`Irish Times' poll: Majority support appeal of Apple ruling Oct 2016
Luxembourg to support Irish appeal over Apple tax ruling Mar 2017
The Government and Apple filed separate appeals last year against the commission's decision that the Revenue Commissioners afforded Apple an unfair advantage in two "rulings", in 1991 and 2007, by allowing the group channel most of the income from European sales through "head office" divisions of two Apple subsidiaries in Ireland, which were non-resident for tax purposes.
State and Apple near deal over billions in back tax July 2017
It's more than six months since it missed an original EU deadline to collect the funds.
Varadkar's legal threat to Apple on €13bn tax bill Nov 2017
Brussels has already referred Ireland to the European Court of Justice for failing to collect the money more than a year after the technology giant was ordered to pay up. ...Last month, EC Commissioner for Competition Margrethe Vestager announced the commission would take court-enforcement action against Ireland over failure to collect the tax money, which is under appeal by both Ireland and Apple.
States' rights?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 11:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Bureaucratic inertia. Allegedly the government is afraid Apple might sue it  for "loss of income" if they put just put the money in an escrow account and left it there. So they ran a tender process for investment houses to manage the money while it is beyond Apple's reach. This whole process seems to have taken an inordinate amount of time, but that is largely irrelevant as long as it is collected and retained depending on whether the appeal is successful or not.

The issue under appeal IS a matter of states rights though. States have not delegated sovereignty over taxation matters to the EU and the Commission has made its ruling under "state aid" to private companies rules claiming that Apple got a special sweetheart deal. The Irish government counter-claim is that the rules under which Apple managed to avoid tax were available and applicable to all companies and that the EU Commission is encroaching on it's sovereign right to write it's own tax laws.

Technically, I think the Irish Government may be right but that does not mean the tax laws weren't crazy, as written, and shouldn't be reformed. The Irish Government has since closed the loophole under which Apple avoided the tax, and the €13 Billion relates to historic earnings only. I will be more convinced of the Irish governments case if it demonstrates that other companies availed of the same loop-hole. I also agree with the EU trying to reduce tax competition/arbitrage between member states, but it doesn't really have the power to do so effectively as yet.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 02:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Half a year is on the long side but not out of bounds for a public procurement process of this magnitude.

What is, however, totally out of bounds and a very bad precedent, is the notion that the state is liable for consequential damages arising from reimbursement of disputed tax payments in the absence of obvious bad faith on the part of the tax authority.

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 04:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, and I wonder whether the state hasn't been making a bit of a meal of its concerns in that regard. That said, the Irish Courts are extremely protective of the rights of private property and there are plenty of lawyers making a fine living out of pursuing dubious corporate law cases.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 04:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I had read the articles and am also familiar with US position on this dispute. I'm inclined to credit current bi-lateral trade conflict to Apple and VW litigation.

These papers front predictably different positions on EU VAT imposition. Does the Commission not have a valid case in seeking to reform digital taxation?
Ireland to fight proposed EU digital tax on internet giants
Ireland must rewire its strategy in light of EU tech tax threat

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 08:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Short answer is yes - it makes sense  from an EU perspective to tax digital companies on their EU wide sales as their under-taxation has been a significant factor in their success in competing against more traditional "bricks" and "morter" companies giving US multi-nationals a competitive advantage against more traditional EU businesses.

Trump likes to complain about "unfair" competition against US businesses whereas the reality is than many US corporates have had more or less a free ride throughout the rest of the world. If he really does start a serious trade war I could see US multi-nationals being by far the biggest losers. - but that's another story.

From an Irish perspective, the EU getting more actively involved in corporate taxation is nothing less than a national disaster - some say a greater risk than Brexit - because Ireland's economic success has been largely predicated on attracting almost every major tech country to set up their EU and sometimes their EMEA headquarters here. This has created many high quality jobs here and not inconsiderable corporate tax revenues even if they are only a v. small % of total corporate earnings throughout much of the rest of the world.

It is easy to criticise such "tax competition" and it certainly has a very damaging effect on EU tax revenues as a whole.  But it is also probably the only basis on which smaller, peripheral EU countries can compete with the big central economies for direct foreign investment. Otherwise you would have expected these companies to have set up their EU headquarters in Germany/France/Benelux/UK instead.

So until and unless the EU comes up with Keynesian redistributive policies and regional policies which overcome the structural disadvantages which smaller peripheral economies face, it seems understandable that Ireland and smaller peripheral economies should make common cause against such a big country power grab disguised as EU common sense. Given that current neo-liberal economic orthodoxies frown on government interventions on the scale required to rebalance the EU (and EZ especially), to provide an even playing field for peripheral countries, I can understand why national corporate taxation policies have evolved to fulfil that role instead.

It would probably be a lot more economically efficient to have one EU wide common taxation system with much of the revenue used to rebalance economic development between the regions. But that would be politically impossible because it would be portrayed as German taxpayers subsidising feckless Greeks. So we have what we have, and from the Irish government's point of view, it is working very well, even if it is recognised that it probably can't go on for much longer, and the more players join the game, the less successful the strategy will be.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Mar 25th, 2018 at 10:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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