A Perfect Storm | 157 comments (157 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Executive power grab? Also not taking notes means there is little accountability?

by generic on Wed Jun 6th, 2018 at 02:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The vast majority of EU member states have elected centre right or right wing governments. Each government is represented on the Council and reports back to it's national Parliament on Council meetings. The President of the Council reports to the European Parliament.

The vast majority of Council decisions are made by "consensus" - effectively unanimously. Therefore it doesn't take much to block a decision - if there was much in the way of a minority view. Unfortunately there isn't much of a minority left wing view. Indeed if there is a minority view, it is represented by far right governments from Poland, Hungary, Austria etc.

So we are lucky that so far they haven't blocked much Council business. The Council "consensus" decisions generally represent the mainstream conservative majority of the Council. That's democracy, whether we like it or not.

If you want to argue for more powers for the European parliament I'm with you on that. But arguing that the EU Council is undemocratic because you don't like its decisions is itself anti-democratic. Not many government institutions world-wide require consensus decision making. If anything, it is all too easy for a relatively small minority to block Council business.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jun 6th, 2018 at 03:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

The not taking notes when acting as a legislature is a problem. Not so much when acting as an executive.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 6th, 2018 at 09:52:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

It's normal, in business, for minutes to record actual decisions rather than the to and fro of whatever discussion took place. The same goes for most Government cabinets. The absence of "word for word" records or videotapes is meant to stop leaders grandstanding for lobby groups or various constituencies back home. If everything were recorded, then the real meetings would take place behind closed doors elsewhere, and the formal meetings would be mostly for show.

Even as it is, "Council Conclusions" are generally circulated for discussion and agreement in the week prior to the meeting so that the outcome of formal meetings are generally already a "forgone conclusion". Most decisions have already been made by consensus beforehand.

It is only when there is a genuine crisis, or unforeseen developments, when decisions have to be made "on the hoof" at the actual formal meetings themselves. The professional diplomats and EU Officials hate it when this happens because they lose control of the process.

The UK has been trying to delay conclusions until the last minute, in the hope of stampeding Prime Ministers into a hasty decision. It hasn't been working. There is a reason the process is so convoluted. The issues are complex with so many interests involved. Personally I am nearly always surprised at how well the system works considering there are 27 governments involved.

Look at how difficult one government is finding it to come up with agreed positions on Brexit...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jun 6th, 2018 at 10:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (4.00 / 4)

Council has two functions. You're right about the executive function, but when it's legislating it should be in public.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 7th, 2018 at 07:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 1)

European Council powers and functions

Although the European Council has no direct legislative power, under the "emergency brake" procedure, a state outvoted in the Council of Ministers may refer contentious legislation to the European Council. However, the state may still be outvoted in the European Council.

The The ordinary legislative procedure, when it occurs, is incredibly document intensive with an enormous paper trail of amendments as it winds it's way through the process:

The legislative functions of the Council

The decision-making process begins with the European Commission sending the proposal for a new law, after it has been approved by the College of Commissioners. The working parties of the Council of Ministers receive the proposal and identify points of agreement and disagreement (agreement listed as I; disagreement and further discussion as II). Then they send the proposal to COREPER. COREPER looks at the proposal and tries to reach agreements on the remaining problems. It divides points into two categories: A items (agreement reached), B items (disagreement). The agreed A items are sent to relevant Councils. The Councils look at the proposal and decide whether to approve it or not and very often they agree without voting (McCormick, 2011 B, p. 194). When a vote is needed however, Qualified Majority Voting is used in most cases.
The number of voices given to each Member State is specified by the Treaty. You can use the voting calculator to see which countries have the most votes.
Once the decision has been reached by the Council, the proposal goes to the European Parliament. The Parliament and the Council might pass it back and forth - with amendments - up to twice. If no agreement is reached, the proposal goes to the meeting of the Conciliation Committee, made up of representatives of the Council and the Parliament and attended by the representatives of the Commission, who amend the proposal until they reach an agreement. The proposal is sent to the Council and the Parliament for the final reading and vote. They can adopt it as a legislative law or reject it.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jun 7th, 2018 at 08:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (4.00 / 3)

It's normal, in business...

The analogy is no good. The EU is not a business. The fact that each government can hide behind anonymity means that, not only is it not elected to run the EU, it has no accountability either. This is a direct and potent source of anti-EU sentiment, because each minister can run home and prattle to his national press, without fear of contradiction, about the nasty things Brussels is forcing him to do.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 11th, 2018 at 05:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

Where is the anonymity? The process, including any votes is well recorded. Unless a minister can show he was clearly outvoted on an issue, why would you or the parliamentary opposition or the national media in their own country believe them if they try to disavow co-responsibility - unless they are all playing into a pre-existing narrative about "anonymous bureaucrats in Brussels" wielding all the power when in fact the decisions are made by ministers?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jun 11th, 2018 at 07:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

The process, including any votes is well recorded.

Ah. Silly me. Can you point me to the page where I can find the minutes of recent Council meetings? Can't seem to find it.

unless they are all playing into a pre-existing narrative about "anonymous bureaucrats in Brussels" wielding all the power when in fact the decisions are made by ministers?

By gum, I think you've cracked it < /irony>

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Jun 12th, 2018 at 01:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

Oh I feel a bit better now : it seems Emily O'Reilly made the same silly mistake as me :

On 13 February 2018, the European Ombudsman, Emily O'Reilly, published her recommendations in a case regarding the (lack of) transparency at the Council of the European Union by failing to record and make publicly available the positions of the different EU Member States during negotiations on legislative proposals.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Jun 12th, 2018 at 01:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Perfect Storm (none / 0)

Yes, we've had discussion several times before. Council acting as legislature in secret bad.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 12th, 2018 at 01:51:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Perfect Storm | 157 comments (157 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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