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Are you new here, Don Durito? Welcome!

And what about them Justice Democrats / Green New Deal and whatnot? I was enthusiastic about them just out of principle, but are they actually demonstrating that a renewal of US democracy?

They are smart, they are lucid, and they are ... so far... uncontrollable. Ocasio Cortez certainly appears to scare the crap out of the Democratic establishment, so it will be interesting to observe how, and how successfully, they will try to crush them.

It will come down to campaign finance... Can the modern US variant of democracy be successfully crowd-funded?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Jan 15th, 2019 at 09:01:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The US system (where you need to get an absolute majority in the Electoral College to win the presidential and VP elections) is set up to very strongly favor a two party system. That was not the original intention; there was an unrealistic hope that a party system would not develop. That lasted for about a decade.

In any case, it is virtually impossible to get a third party off the ground. Most politicians figure this out and work to steer one of the two major parties in their preferred direction. There are a few outliers, but they are all weird special cases.

by asdf on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 03:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My assumption, indeed, is that the only hope for democracy in the US lies with the Democrats.

And yes, I'm aware that it's a long shot.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 04:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
one party state then?
ho. ho. ho.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 05:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Representative Government In The Ancient Polities

Democracy is fine, but not every citizen should have a vote. Individuals need to meet a standard for "True Democracy" as in ancient Greece with the Senate of Rome. One has the elites [later the nobility] who should run the nation, all others are dispensable as in slavery or later ownership in Medieval times of serfdom and serfs.  Sovereignty in leadership cannot be entrusted to the lesser in wealth and knowledge.

The Founding Fathers and the Electoral College

    Robert W. Bennett, author of Taming the Electoral College and a law professor at Northwestern University, notes that neither women nor white men without property could vote at the time, either--meaning that slavery was not the only factor that made the allocation of the Electoral College out of sync with reality. "A relatively small number of people actually had the right to vote."

As the voting rights expanded, the states of the Union found other means to block its citizens from participating in the elections. I have realized later on, the U.S. is just a poor democracy and undoubtedly reaps the harm/ills from such a policy.

Third parties are blocked not by the form of an Electoral College, but by indirect representation of the winner takes all. Same situation in the UK with districts and plurality voting. Some nations have party-list proportional representation as in The Netherlands where coalition forming and compromise have become an art.

Electoral Systems by Country

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.

by Oui on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 04:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Elites? Johnson, Reese-Mogg and all the rest? Are you sure?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 04:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Over the past 200+ years there has been in the US a gradual migration from the original republic towards democracy. Voting rights have been extended to those without the appropriate religion, property, race, gender, or age, and the process for choosing senators has been changed, as has the primary system, etc. The original goal of avoiding mob rule has been largely removed from the system.
by asdf on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 05:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The salient point is that US Constitution prescribes an Elector College only for election of POTUS.

The US Constitution does NOT

  • limit the number of House representatives, instead prescribes representation proportionate to population; the limit was established by Congress in USC and could be repealed at any time;
  • prescribe representation by "district";
  • proscribe the number of political factions in Congress;
  • proscribe any other election process; or
  • proscribe allocation of electors between or among political factions.

IdioSavant's comment about the helplessness of the polity and proportional representation in the USA is incorrect.

Limits to unqualified enfranchisement ("direct democracy") in the USA are the result of the stunted imaginations of eligible voters, possibly illiteracy, and craven federal and states' legislative acts, elected by the cretins that the polity elects to do so, over and over again (because "institutional knowledge", incumbency), including Secretary of State in each (if not APPOINTED) whose executive function is to fulfill demands of the partisan corporations who dominate a legislature and qualify voters' rights AND candidatures in that state.

A third party could be had IF voters "thought" that candidate could WIN!!!


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 06:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was talking about the UK, not the USA. And obviously, the UK has a far freeer hand in changing its electoral system than the US: all they have to do is overcome a self-interested establishment seeking to preserve its own power, rather than that plus some archaic rules designed to produce constitutional stasis.
by IdiotSavant on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 08:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my mistake

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Jan 16th, 2019 at 11:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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