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If the UK gets an extension, they are still members during the extension, right? And can presumably withdraw the article 50 notification within that period of time?

Because otherwise, it would be clever to get parliament to first vote down May's deal and crash out Brexit, to get them to kick the can down the road through an extension, only to find that the road ends with the two choices they already voted down...

Or in the words of Admiral Ackbar:

by fjallstrom on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 12:18:14 PM EST
Assume nothing.

EU Council procedure to grant an extension to the WA negotiation period --although WA negotiation has concluded-- is not prescribed by the TEU.

Strictly speaking, the EU Council offer is not legal.

Strictly speaking, any conditions or contingencies proffered by either party in order to circumvent TEU obligations and rights are not legal; and these are moot.

UK is not an EU "member is good standing" by any measure of common sense.

The whole, sad connivance by UK gov to subvert EU gov legitimacy is as likely to end up in the ECJ as the UK High Court for disposal --the next business day after PM posts wtf in the mail to Mr Tusk. Thus, legal review will stay execution of BREXIT and seating of UK MEPs.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 04:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The EU Council has the legal right to offer an extension to the 2 year A.50 notification period, for whatever reason it sees fit, but only by unanimous consent. Until such time as the A.50 notification period or any extension thereof granted by the EU Council expires, the UK remains, by definition, a member of the EU in good standing, and is subject to all the rights and obligations of the EU Treaties.

By my understanding, this incudes the right to rescind an A.50 notification, but also the obligation to organise the EP elections due next May in its territory, even if it subsequently turns out that the UK has left the EU before the EP is due to hold its first session, in which case the UK members of the EP duly elected will be unable to take their seats and their election will be deemed moot.

The EU can also choose to re-open the Withdrawal Agreement negotiations at a time of its choosing if it is so minded, but then again it may choose not to do so, as appears to be their choice at the present time.

Discussions on the accompanying "Political Declaration" are ongoing, with the UK seeking to give that declaration some legal force, something the EU has not been prepared to concede at the time of writing, particularly as the declarations the UK are seeking might be deemed to be in contradiction of aspects of that Withdrawal Agreement, as concluded last November.

If the choice for the UK becomes one between ratifying the Withdrawal Agreement and a Second referendum, with "no deal" ruled out, the EU will have little incentive to "sweeten the pill" of the Withdrawal Agreement, as its preferred option as always been no Brexit at all.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 05:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"the obligation to organise the EP elections due next May in its territory"

What does this mean, though? May is not that far away: fewer than 90 days. If one looks in France, for example, have polling place notices been mailed yet? Candidate lists published? Voting observers put on retainer? Etc.?

I don't know the mechanics of voting in the EU, but an election date in May suggests that by early March there should be observable preparatory activity. If that activity is not observable in the UK, is the UK still fulfilling its responsibilities as an EU member in good standing?

by asdf on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 07:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
AFAIK, no bill introduced for vote on or before 14 March establishes criteria or means for the Electoral Commission to execute any "public vote."

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 08:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Afaik, every country has their own schedule.

In Sweden, today was last day to hand in candidates, lists, signed declarations by the candidates etc, for parties if they are to be guaranteed printed lists at latest 45 days before the election.

The election authority usually manages late cases, but they don't guarantee it.

So, at least here, the election time table has already started.

by fjallstrom on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 09:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
General elections in Britain are governed by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 which allows for a snap general election if voted for by 2/3s of all MPs or if a government loses a vote of confidence and no new government can win a vote of confidence within 14 days.

I can't find any requirement for a minimum or maximum notice period, but on 18 April 2017, Prime Minister Theresa May announced her intention to call a snap general election for 8 June 2017 - a period of c. 7 weeks.

Referendums require distinct legislation to be passed on each occasion, so it takes however long that takes. The legislation for the June 2016 Brexit referendum was introduced into the HOC on 28 May 2015 - over a year beforehand.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 09:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Polling place notices? Don't all voters have a voting card with the fixed polling place on it, to be notified only if it changes?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 11:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't all voters have a voting card with the fixed polling place on it

No

Individual Polling cards are mailed to each person on the electoral roll before each election, indicating the polling station on that occasion. While they rarely change, polling stations are not fixed.

The polling card is/was just a notiification of the election. You did not need it to vote. Until a trial in May 2018 you did not need to prove your identity, just state you name and address to be given a ballot paper.

In May 2018 local (council) elections, there were some trials requiring ID to vote.

You might say "archaic" or "very trusting".

by oldremainmer48 on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 08:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sensible.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 05:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably dates from the time when democracies were actually trying to encourage people to vote...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 06:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hold up.

The questions about "organizing an election" and voters' assignments to a particular "fixed polling place" concern the UK electoral system, specifically.

Let's not generalize methods of "to encourage" (or to discourage) to exercise the ballot for either the past or the present,

before you've even established qualifications for

  1. universal suffrage in the the UK; and
  2. democratic form of government  in the the UK.


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 06:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like revoking notice to wisthdraw, procedure for extending the "negotiation period" is not "explicitly addressed" in TEU(50). This is what I mean by "illegal."
JUDGMENT OF THE COURT (Full Court)
75      In view of all the foregoing, the answer to the question referred is that Article 50 TEU must be interpreted as meaning that, where a Member State has notified the European Council, in accordance with that article, of its intention to withdraw from the European Union, that article allows that Member State -- for as long as a withdrawal agreement concluded between that Member State and the European Union has not entered into force or, if no such agreement has been concluded, for as long as the two-year period laid down in Article 50(3) TEU, possibly extended in accordance with that paragraph, has not expired -- to revoke that notification unilaterally, in an unequivocal and unconditional manner, by a notice addressed to the European Council in writing, after the Member State concerned has taken the revocation decision in accordance with its constitutional requirements. The purpose of that revocation is to confirm the EU membership of the Member State concerned under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State, and that revocation brings the withdrawal procedure to an end.
It follows, arguably, EU gov may not lawfully or legally impose conditions on or qualify an extension period in terms other than duration, granted by EU Council to a "negotiation period" that otherwise would terminate two year after A.50 notification absent WA ratified by a "possibly" withdrawing Member State.

Obversely, the EU Council might lawfully reject, without consideration, any conditional or qualified request for an extension from the "possibly" withdrawing Member State -- such as leave to modify, alter, or amend the WA ostensibly approved by its legislature in accord with constitutional authorities it may or may not exercise in the period contemplated.

Effectively and arguably, extending the period for the "possibly" withdrawing Member State to obtain agreement from its legislature offers no benefit but sovereign rights in itself to undermine EU legitimacy and "democratic" process.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 08:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The highlighted passage in Para. 75 refers to a member revoking its A.50 notification - which must be done in an unequivocal and unconditional manner - not to the EU Council extending the A.50 notification period - which requires unanimity and could be subject to whatever political conditions the EU Council chooses to dream up.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 09:23:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know that.

My remarks anticipate litigation.  I said that.

I'm applying ECJ logic to adjudicate lawful UK request to extend the period. I said that.

Neither procedure or its legality is "explicitly addressed" in TEU. I said that.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 12:23:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU's Barnier: UK needs to resolve Brexit, not delay
The EU's chief Brexit negotiator has given the UK a blunt message after British lawmakers voted for a plan that could result in a Brexit delay. Barnier called for decisions, rather than extra time.
Member in 'good standing'? No
After a meeting with Barnier in Vienna, Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said he would also like to see Brexit resolved before European elections in May. It would "seem more than absurd" for a country wanting to leave the bloc to be able to vote for its legislature, he said.
30 days more enough to 'Ratify' or Revoke? UK decides.
Barnier reiterated that position in Vienna, telling reporters that the EU was "not going to reopen the withdrawal agreement."
EOM

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Mar 1st, 2019 at 01:55:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the UK gets an extension, they are still members during the extension, right? And can presumably withdraw the article 50 notification within that period of time?
Yes, unilaterally and unconditionally according to the ECJ ruling on Brexit reversal.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2019 at 05:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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