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Apperantly there is an upcoming Peterson - Zizek debate. Here embetted in full:

by generic on Fri Apr 19th, 2019 at 10:46:16 AM EST
by das monde on Fri Apr 19th, 2019 at 11:21:52 AM EST
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by generic on Sat Apr 20th, 2019 at 03:50:22 PM EST
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The Great Debate.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 06:27:49 AM EST
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There is also the full video if anyone wants to subject themselves to this:

I skimmed through it. How do you scream for half a decade about "cultural marxism" and then freely admit to never having read any actual Marxist texts, with the exception of the Manifesto. And that only in preparation for a debate years into your grift. I'm not surprised that he didn't but why outright admit it?
Zizek was pretty lucid at least.

And that Guardian article is also quite bad. How is Zizek an "old-school" Marxist? And simultainously "hates marxism"?
Žižek asked what Peterson meant by cultural Marxists when postmodern thinkers, like Foucault, weren't Marxist at all. Peterson was an expert on this subject, at least. He gave a minor history of the French critical theorists who transposed categories of class oppression for group oppression in the 1960s.
What kind of gibberish is this? Does the author think postmodern thinkers are marxist?
And while I have sympathy with anyone having trouble following Zizek's line of thought, I don't think that a construct that goes: "If you say X I agree, but Y(X) is basically the Nazi blood-libel", should be read as "there was a lot of agreement"
They did agree that Peterson should read more books though.

by generic on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 10:28:17 AM EST
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Postmodernism Did Not Take Place: On Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life - Viewpoint Magazine
Its origins were surprisingly deliberate, emerging from a paleoconservative Washington think tank called the Free Congress Foundation. The FCF was founded by Paul Weyrich, a founder of the Heritage Foundation and namer of the so-called Moral Majority movement. Weyrich also created a TV network called National Empowerment Television, a short-lived predecessor to Fox News, which aired a documentary in 1999 called "Political Correctness: The Frankfurt School." Hosted by a pipe-wielding human bleach stain named William Lind, it presents an account of the origin of what we now call "identity politics." These came, Lind tells us, from the Institute for Social Research, or the Frankfurt School. There, Theodor Adorno, Herbert Marcuse, and their cronies created a school of thought called "critical theory," which the FCF gave the name "cultural Marxism." This frightening idea fused the impertinence of Marx with the indecency of Freud, producing a new threat to Western values far beyond those posed by Copernicus or Darwin. This argument was elevated to the surface of political discourse by Patrick Buchanan, in his 2001 Oswald Spengler rewrite, The Death of the West. As recently as 2017, Buchanan condemned "Postmodern America" in a column defending Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore.
by generic on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 10:44:35 AM EST
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Fascists will always conflate Marxism with their bogeyman du jour (Strawmanning is so much easier than thinking.), and let's face it, Peterson is a fascist.
by rifek on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 11:23:04 PM EST
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Zizek Exposes Defect In Jordan Peterson's Beliefs

< wipes tears >

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Apr 23rd, 2019 at 07:15:21 PM EST
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lol

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Apr 23rd, 2019 at 07:21:04 PM EST
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"I got this idea from Jean Piaget"
~ J. Peterson

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Apr 23rd, 2019 at 07:26:23 PM EST
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I always thought of pomo as the deliberate Neo-Capitalist Reformation subversion of Marxism.

Instead of enumerating and challenging actual oppressive political relationships you can deconstruct cultural metaphors for power - which is a much less dangerous hobby that's unlikely to bother anyone who matters.

The Adorno connection is a misdirection. Pomo and Critical Theory began when the Ford Foundation started promoting French post-structuralists in the US, and continued - possibly continues - with Ford Foundation and Mellon Foundation support for Critical Theory in US academia.

Why the CIA Cares about Marxism

Two modern self-promoters - Žižek and Peterson - are the least likely "academics" on the planet to have anything interesting to say about any of this.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 12:04:23 PM EST
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Hmm ... quite interesting read and do recognize elements based on my memory of those years. What is a change for social reform is certainly linked to what is economically feasible.

The 1960s saw a surge in economic development in the West with the Cold War space programs as accelerator ... the development if computers, the digital electronics boom and microchips. Due to the cost of the Vietnam War the US and Europe had high inflation which followed by a recession in the early 80s and rise of Thatcher and Reagan. 😟

The financial crash of 1987 was one of many that shook-up politics and was a reality check of capitalism. The Internet boom of the late 90s and early 2000 was catalyst for the demise if socialisme and Labour parties in Western Europe. 🤨  

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.

by Oui on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 03:10:26 PM EST
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It is tricky to criticize critical theories.

Peterson will switch to rapping.

by das monde on Thu Apr 25th, 2019 at 06:05:38 AM EST
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running time 02:37:55 + n(scream intermission minutes) > 3 min read

Listening to this will be a challenge for that individual bereft of disposable time, IP supply with device decoder, electricity, academic knowledge, and imperative motivation. Possessing 3 of 4 prerequisites for trial of METACOGNITION, I will attempt it.

Cf. W.Lippmann choice theory in formation of public opinion.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sun Apr 21st, 2019 at 04:07:57 PM EST
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I admit I care little for philosophy, political or otherwise. Far too full of pompous bloviaters for anybody sensible to bother sorting wheat from chaff. A sideline observation is that the sole product from the courses they teach seems to be Conservative politicians. Seriously, look at the UK tories, half of them seem to be Oxford PPE (philosophy, politics and and economics) graduates. Seems to me there's some mood poisoning goes on in those lectures.

So, from a state of almost pure ignorance, the only time I have heard the term "cultural marxists" is from the alt-right or from people on the right who have obviously heard the term and think it sounds like a clever smear of anyone who disagrees with them. Therefore if somebody uses it, I assume they're lazy thinkers and stop listening.

YMMV

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 08:44:33 AM EST
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It's a bit more than a clever smear, though.

Wikipedia : Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory

In contemporary usage, the term Cultural Marxism is an antisemitic conspiracy theory that the Frankfurt School is part of a continual academic and intellectual effort to undermine and destroy Western culture.[49] That the Frankfurt School were part a conspiracy to undermine Western society by replacing traditionalist conservatism with the Counterculture of the 1960s and multiculturalism, progressive politics and political correctness.[50][51][52]

The Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory is associated with American religious paleoconservatives such as William S. Lind, Pat Buchanan, and Paul Weyrich, and the alt-right, white nationalist groups, and the neo-reactionary movement.[53]

Trending hard and fast these days.

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 10:14:47 AM EST
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funny how the phrase is thrown around so glibly, but the specifically anti-semitic origins are ignored.

However, to my ears, the phrase is vacuous and rendered entirely devoid of meaning. Or rather, the specifics of the meaning are largely unknown to those who use it so that it can become a general purpose insult to be thrown around like mud.

The right variously use the words "socialist", "liberal" and "communist" in similar guise. Words which have been stripped of meaning so that, just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, they convey nothing of value about the described person's particular viewpoint, but which will be interpreted anew, and negatively, by the audience of said smear.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 11:55:41 AM EST
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Reactionary polemic in the US is a formulaic M&A model, suitable for "anti-intellectual" audiences. Removing ideas competing with status quo from rational consideration is easy.

There is little to no education of the populus in historiography, "language arts," and algebraic solution in particular. There is little to no opportunity to exercise argument and synthesis in a society whose members are always fighting each other for real and imagined vital resources.

Derogatory marxism is an old "high-brow" mask. The advocate for incumbency prepends or appends "marxist" to the offending subject. The subject matter (text of the dead) is disassembled, literally, by discarding dispositive elements of its thesis and exposition. Substitution with neologisms or fallacious attribution occurs with impunity (no "proofreading").

The "low-brow" reactionary simply adds "multiculti-" or "multicultural-" to the offending subject in order to express alienation from, or derangement of, a stable, authoritative value system. Ad hominem illustration of heterogeneous elements ensues until sublimated by prejudice.

"Cultural marxism" merely announces the amalgam, or pastiche, of reactionary industry to date.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 01:40:39 PM EST
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Shorter Helen + Cat : "intellectual" terms may be flung around like taurine fecal matter to rile up those for whom "cultu-" and "Marxi-" are hot-button noises. They don't need to have much content.

Very true. It's also true that there are people for whom they may appear to have serious content into which to be initiated, and those people can be foot soldiers (particularly network-enabled) in the war to make the terms and the smoke-wreathed theories behind them become common wisdom. It's a war that began in the mid-20th century against the leftward movement of society at the time. How to shoot down the leftwing intellectuals that held front and centre stage in the '50s - '70s? How to halt the slide to socialism? (Cue in the Chicago School of Economics and authoritarian "neo"-liberalism.)

Of course, even well-funded reactionary efforts have not been enough in themselves to bring about the current destruction of the left. For a new wave of economic liberalism to triumph, new rapid communications had to offer cheap Asian labour to world capital. For reactionary political and social ideas to flourish, the same rapid communications we are using here (in our quaint little way) are a formidable vector. And we're not fooling ourselves about who's winning the Internet wars, are we?

And finally, what has the left been doing while capital restructures the world and toxic ideology takes increasing hold (whether on a destabilised and insecure ex-working class, or on wannabe intellectuals)?

TBG above : Instead of enumerating and challenging actual oppressive political relationships you can deconstruct cultural metaphors for power - which is a much less dangerous hobby that's unlikely to bother anyone who matters.

Decades of ineffectual thinking leading straight into the identity trap, the culture wars that the right just loves, because they displace energy and fight away from class analysis and war. (Don't forget what Warren Buffet said).

So, you know, it seems to me it's worth thinking about what's behind "cultural Marxism".

I used to be afew. I'm still not many.

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 07:11:04 PM EST
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Independent : The man suspected of shooting worshippers at a San Diego synagogue appears to have posted a rambling online document which referenced "cultural Marxism", a phrase commonly used in both far-right circles and in mainstream political discussions.

(...)

In an incoherent list of why he hates Jewish people, the suspect also blames them for their "role in cultural Marxism".



I used to be afew. I'm still not many.
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Sun Apr 28th, 2019 at 02:49:57 PM EST
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Seems to me there's some mood poisoning goes on in those lectures.

"Bias confirmation", more like.

by rifek on Mon Apr 22nd, 2019 at 11:26:37 PM EST
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