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tbh if they could guarantee the Tory party would be destroyed with all of its members dying a slow and gruesome death, I might be prepared to accept brexit as a price worth paying.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 8th, 2019 at 09:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Jul 8th, 2019 at 10:16:46 PM EST
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Illustration of said members (for the lulz):

"We are crying out for a strong person. It is their strength that we are seeking. Boris offers that. We want someone strong. We haven't had a strong leader since Margaret Thatcher. Boris is the nearest and the best. He is a strong man. He is a heavyweight."

Linda Owen, who is 81, says these words while framed by a proscenium arch of Margaret Thatcher photographs on the wall beside her.



Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 05:52:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
`Well what did we have two world wars for? Fun?'
Millions, if not billions of words have been written over the last three years about the causes of Brexit. A divided nation, areas left behind, the London bubble, all the rest of it. But the single biggest and simplest cause has a tendency to be overlooked, not least as so many people simply cannot stomach it.

It is a straightforward loathing of the European Union and its institutions, felt with furious intensity. It is a loathing that is deeply coloured by the Second World War. And yes, precious few people are still around who fought in it, but the postwar generation are profoundly shaped by it, and what it did to their parents' lives. There is a tendency for younger people to glibly overlook and devalue these fierce emotions. It is counterproductive.

"There is this feeling that we've lost our identity," Linda says. She is not young, but she is fiercely articulate. She is well-informed about politics, and she is anything but stupid. She spent 22 years working at Carl Zeiss research, the world-leading optical lens manufacturers.

"We were the postwar generation. My parents went through two world wars and they were horrified at the EU. Your identity is sapped out of you. And in the end, you don't feel any pride in your own country. It's our identity, and it will get worse and worse and worse."

There follows the usual schpiel about having nothing, having to work for everything, and about the younger generation just not getting it:

"As postwar children we had nothing, we only had what we worked for. You struggle and you get things," she says, beginning a story all too familiar to anyone who has seen The Four Yorkshiremen comedy sketch, which is itself 52 years old. "When you see what's happening now, all these youths, with their hats, and their sweatshirts, with Stussy on it. I had one come to my house to fix the boiler. He looked at my house and said, `You're lucky.' I said, `Luck had nothing to do with it.' It's all there for you to grab, but you have to grab it. I said, `Look at your trainers, they must be worth a hundred pounds.' We were lucky just to have a pair of shoes."

When asked what any this has to do with the European Union, she replies with real indignation. "Everything. Everything! It's got everything to do with the EU. We have gone without too much, to now be piled into a big melting pot with everybody else. We want our identity. It's what our forefathers worked for. The UK. England. It's ours. We don't want to be told, by them, what to do and what not to do, and paying a hell of a lot of money to do it. Everything is about them telling us, and our independence going. It's like an elderly couple, coming to the point at which they are asked, `Do you want help?' And they say `no'. We want our independence. And they'll slave on. They want their independence. It is an instinct."



Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 09:34:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the point of winning a war when you have to make peace with your enemies... becoming the equals of those you have defeated? Little matter that you only won the war because the USA came to your side, and now threatens to become your overlord?  What is the point of leaving if it will make you all poorer... Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.

Old people losing their identity: an identity younger people have embraced. It's about the EU, yes, but its also about cosmopolitanism, immigration, secularism, liberalism, diversity, pluralism, gender identities, class distinctions and younger people having more than you despite the sacrifices you or your parents made.

People used to "know their place", in the class and racial order of things; respect God, Queen, property, status, and Country; have clear gender roles and respect for authority; Worked hard in shitty jobs for bastard employers. Now it is young people, gays, immigrants who demand respect, with workers rights and consumer protections. The state, especially the EU, intruding on all.

We're not having that.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 09:58:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Set this in 4/4 time and four part harmony and it is the refrain heard in Germany and Austria from 1919 to 1939.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 06:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whenever I hear some cretin bleating, "we need a strong leader" I remember another bit of fascist irrationality:

"We don't want lower bread prices, we don't want higher bread prices, we don't want unchanged bread prices -- we want National Socialist bread prices!"


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 06:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hitler promised "guns and butter" and provided tanks and motorways; a renewed sense of national pride. He stopped runaway inflation so at least you had predictable prices. My father talked of having wheelbarrows of worthless bank notes and the price of essentials doubling from morning to afternoon. What did the EU ever do for us?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 07:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The hyperinflation episode was ten years before Hitler came to power, but never mind. People believe what they want to believe, and disregard the rest (to quote the song).

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Jul 9th, 2019 at 08:30:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"People believe what they want to believe", which is precisely what Brexit is all about... hence my comparisons with part mythical Hitler "achievements".

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:48:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What did the EU ever do for us?

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 at 07:22:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking more of the Monty Python sketch and Patrick Stewart hasn't done a bad job either, but yea, that too...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those Reichsmarks were pretty worthless by the end of '45.  The father of a former professor of mine found a stash of about RM 1,000.  He took my prof and her brother through a series of back alleys to a black market where he bought each of them an ice cream.
by rifek on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 at 11:28:13 PM EST
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Sounds like my father.  Senility's a bitch.
by rifek on Wed Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:58:14 PM EST
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