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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 08:26:26 PM EST
Any ballpark estimate of the time difference between a direct to Dublin route from Rotterdam and the present two ferry + landbridge arrangement? One link offers 2.9 days sailing at 10nm/hr. I don't know what speed the ferries offer.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 09:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe, there are still operating aircraft in Great Britain.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 10:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not American Boeing 737 MAX's, I hope!
Which brings up the question, "Will British Airways have to pay more for Airbus?"
by StillInTheWilderness on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 03:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 03:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Will Ryan air transition to short-haul cargo carrier?"

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 03:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In a no deal scenario the Blue skies agreement on landing rights also lapses. UK owned airlines like BA, Iberia and Aer Lingus may lose landing rights in EU airports leaving Ryanair as one of the few carriers connecting the EU/UK provide the UK don't retaliate by barring EU carriers. Depends on how bad things get post no-deal Brexit, I suppose.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

UK prepper desk, CH

Congratulations, Swissair!
EC Reg. 2407
--
How have IE, UK airline shareholders' proportional positions changed since 2017?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The level of contract analysis here should be moving with EU development and implementation of the ahhh four freedoms policies.

From nation-state to personal parties, "freedom of the individual".

atm, This strategy is clearest in modifications to directives separating interests of corporate persons (eg. air, finance, civil rights) from those of ahh govs (UK) estranged from the Union.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Over 100 London investment firms get EU licences for Brexit hubs - regulator
sset managers, trading platforms and investment firms in London have so far obtained licences to run new hubs in the European Union
[...]
Licences are granted by national regulators but the European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA) ensures they don't offer sweeteners to UK-based firms that want a base to serve EU clients after Britain leaves the bloc, currently scheduled for Oct. 31.
[...]
ESMA, national regulators and Britain's [FCA] have already signed cooperation agreements in the event of a no-deal Brexit, he added.

archived
PART V, Financial Provisions

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Sep 5th, 2019 at 10:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not so much as soon as the Airbus UK manufacturing footprint has gotten smaller ... 24k employees across 25 sites and important supply chain. It will take time to see effects. A cost calculation, sometimes just moving HQers helps. Substantial orders could help ... many aviation components are "Made In USA". Time will tell. 😒

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.
by Oui on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sterling devaluation won't help...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
British Airways grounds nearly all flights as pilots strike, 9 Sep
The union accuses British Airways of making big profits at the expense of workers who made sacrifices during hard times. British Airways' parent company, IAG, made a net profit of 2.9 billion euros ($3.2 billion) last year.

Union leader Brian Strutton said pilots are determined to be heard.

"They've previously taken big pay cuts to help the company through hard times. Now BA is making billions of pounds of profit, its pilots have made a fair, reasonable and affordable claim for pay and benefits."



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Sep 9th, 2019 at 06:51:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it will all depend on how great any delays at Dover turn out to be, and the relative costs. A lot of Irish freight is RO-RO (roll-on roll-off i.e. the truck travels with the load) rather than containers. This may have to change.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 10:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since the UK has done nothing to prepare the ports of entry are going to be one gigantic mess.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 10:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris Grayling organised a traffic jam to demonstrate how Brexit would work!

His other great idea was not to conduct ant checks whatsoever and this subvert the whole process which is all a cunning EU plot in the first place...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 11:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the important thing is to demonstrate just how confident the Brexiteers are that the EU will change their mind faced with British resoluteness.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 11:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...British resoluteness.

Rather like the People's Front of Judea's Crack Suicide Squad: We showed them!

by rifek on Wed Sep 4th, 2019 at 09:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know about that.
The acronym needs a couple of vowels, more coke, possibly weed.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Sep 4th, 2019 at 09:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be possible to have Irish drivers take over the trucks in Ireland. Then there would be no need to pay truckers for the transit time at sea or to pay loading fees for cranes to move containers from truck to boat and then back again at Dublin.

BTW, does Ireland have adequate return cargo for these vessels? It would seem desirable to favor transport of goods to the EU over transport to England, especially where the transport to England is by English vessels. The exception would be if England paid more than the EU would pay.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 11:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ireland runs large trade surpluses with most EU countries although much of Irish exports are services or high value/low volume items like pharmaceuticals which don't take up much container space. Our food exports are likely to require refrigeration and rapid distribution so there may be an imbalance in volumes and container types  required for imports and exports. Not my specialist area!

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 03:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Technically, Ro-Ro doesnt mean the truck travels with the trailer. You can have Ro-Ro port tractors which extract the trailers from the ship. (disclaimer: I used to work for SISU Ro-Ro tractors).

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 12:28:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Ireland the term is used to describe a kind of ship - a car/truck ferry where vehicles drive onto the ship rather than a container ship. Yes, port tractors can be employed instead - I don't know to what extent they are used in Ireland, but the vast majority of drivers - especially on the land-bridge across Wales/England - accompany their load and truck on the ferries.

As I said above, that may have to change with the much longer sailing times to Rotterdam. Some of the ships being put onto those longer routes are container ships.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 01:34:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One complication may be if the load is carrying frozen or chilled food. I don't know whether container ships provide a power supply to keep the cooler running.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 01:36:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Easier than solving the Irish backstop 😣
Refrigerated at -60 degr C

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.
by Oui on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 05:30:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for this! I'm learning more about international logistics than I thought I would ever have to!

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 08:02:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If tractors and drivers accompanied their vehicles the ship would have to have facilities for the drivers to eat, use the toilet, etc. And drivers would have to be paid for their time in some way. This could be different from the two ship passages on a land-bridge route.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:03:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been using the SeaRates site.  From what I can tell travel time will about double which in a JIT world doesn't matter all that much as long as the increase is consistent.  Don't know about travel costs.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 1st, 2019 at 10:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ireland exports a lot of fresh and ready made food where travel time could be critical. I don't think Ireland is all that integrated into European JIT manufacturing processes. Costs would depend on how many competitors operate routes but there has to be some saving if Truck and driver don't accompany load. The new Cork Santander route has been a success, by all accounts, but it is actually a shorter sea route (1,000km) than Dublin Rotterdam (1,300km). Rosslare Le Havre, on the other hand, is only 750km.

Bloody England gets in the way. We need to chop off the lands end peninsula


Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 12:40:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Goodness me, why go all the way to Le Havre? Unless your goods are travelling on to other maritime ports. If you're interested in just-in-time shipments to EU destinations, Brittany looks like an interesting option : Rosslare or Cork to Roscoff is quicker. Depends on final destination, and carrying capacity of the smaller ports. But I imagine there will be a lot of redeployment among the shipping companies, and they will come up with competitive offers.
Actually I can't imagine what cost advantage there could be in driving across the UK to get Irish goods to the Continent... ???


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 02:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cork Roscoff is 630Kn and Rosslare Roscoff is 540km. so offer a few hours saving on Le Havre. That said, last time I travelled the route (40 years ago!) the roads out of Rosscoff weren't great, especially for large container trucks.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 03:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Snap! I did the same in 1980 (Roscoff to Cork) and the roads out of Cork didn't look wonderful for trucks either... Things have surely changed since then!

However, Roscoff can't compare in any way to Le Havre as a port.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I should add: there were trucks of fresh fish and shellfish going that route back then. West coast of Ireland - Cork - Roscoff - Parisian restaurants.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 04:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did Cherbourg-Rosslare and Rosslare-Roscoff more recently (2003 I think) and the infrastructure was fine :)

Gigantism is fashionable for sea freight. I'm not sure it's optimal for the modern world. Particularly for high-value or perishable goods, lower-volume networked distribution systems rather than integrated and centralised supply chains must surely have their place.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Sep 3rd, 2019 at 09:15:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Define "fresh"

For fresh-fresh even 10 hours is too long.  If Ireland does any of that they are already using air transportation.  

Otherwise, "fresh" is picked green and then frozen or refrigerated until put on the shelf at the grocers.

I would think all meat and poultry would be frozen.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 05:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most meat and poultry sold in Ireland is not frozen and therefore suitable for home freezing. Air transport must add significantly to costs. I don't know to what extent it is used...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2019 at 08:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't imagine exported meat is fresh.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Sep 3rd, 2019 at 04:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Irish lamb meat can be found in French grocery stores. And no, it's not frozen (that would be New Zealand lamb), but it must have traveled in refrigerated containers/trucks for a couple of days.
by Bernard on Tue Sep 3rd, 2019 at 08:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No problem with that, meat is left to "mature" several days in cold store before sale anyway. 2-3 days for a lamb carcass, 2 weeks (or more) for a beef carcass.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Wed Sep 4th, 2019 at 06:15:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See how easy it is to lose one's mind?

One minute you're hacking off muscle from the rabbit you snared at 09:30 in your backyard for supper at 16:00. The next minute one's deliberating the "freshness" of refrigerated meat.

Who will think of the salt porkers? WHO?


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Sep 4th, 2019 at 03:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps Cornwall and Devon will secede and petition to join with Ireland in the new Celtic United Commonwealth.
by rifek on Wed Sep 4th, 2019 at 09:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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