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"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 03:18:45 PM EST
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by Cat on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 04:35:58 PM EST
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Read the conspiracy Trump's personal lawyer Giuliani believes in ...

It's based on a false timeline ... a dud.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 05:34:48 PM EST
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Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 06:21:29 PM EST
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"Biden bragged openly" - But the question is 'about what?' I have seen videos of Biden bragging about getting rid of Shokin, but that did not involve Hunter Biden:
But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim.

It wasn't because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe.

Shokin's inaction prompted international calls for his ouster and ultimately resulted in his removal by Ukraine's parliament.


And, as Oui has noted, there are timeline problems with the allegation that Joe Biden took those actions to protect Hunter.

In addition, Trump's own Homeland Security Secretary had warned Trump that the 'Joe Biden acted to protect Hunter Biden' story had been debunked.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 03:54:20 PM EST
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Rudy Giuliani believing a conspiracy theory Made in USA bij de Repugs themselves. Getting the State Department to run with it is a grave error in judgment ... as I have written before, after the succes of the Feb. 2014 coup d'etat in Kiev, the Ukrainian leaders put their trust in the US Administration which happened to be Blue. All proceeds of corruption went into the pockets of the politicians who won the Verkova election.

The resources of fossil fuels is a blessing and a curse ... many oligarchs switched allegiance from East to West w/o a blink of the eye. Follow the money for the last three decades.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 04:29:59 PM EST
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The truth is irrelevant. It's just a story for the MAGA faithful to hang their hat on so they can discount Trump's crimes. Distraction and misdirection are all that is required. Leave truth and complicated explanations for the do-gooder suckers.
by Andhakari on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 04:38:58 PM EST
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Y'all persist in disputing specific business activities inferred from Hunter Biden's associates in Ukraine (whatEVER those are),

when the utmost question presented by the US for public impeachment --THIS WEEK-- is WHETHER OR NOT perceptible propriety or impropriety, lawfulness or unlawfullness, legality or illegality, of one's capacity in a US public office to proffer ultimatums to induce political agreement from foreign government officials applies both to Joe Biden and Trump.

Neither ARGeezer, Oui, nor rifek respond to material evidence or any legal standard of evidence or law governing the USA.

StillInTheWilderness's opinion, "Biden bragged openly about denying aid unless a criminal investigation of his son was called off" is an example of an ultimatum to induce political agreement from foreign government officials.

Biden testimony, while VP, are memorialized verbatim in Council on Foreign Relations, "Foreign Affairs Issue Launch with Former Vice President Joe Biden,", Tuesday, January 23, 2018, A/V, running time 00:59:49. (3x)

Biden's testimony is said by some US House representatives to be imcomparable to transcript of Trump's phone conversation with Zelensky, because Trump allegedly induced "personal" gain or profit from cooperation from a foreign government official in ongoing US investigation into alleged unlawful activity involving US and Ukraine persons. Material evidence of those facts obtained by US DOJ is not known to the public nor US House committees which is why committee chairs have subpoenaed particular US agencies.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 06:16:29 PM EST
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"Biden bragged openly about denying aid unless a criminal investigation of his son was called off"
It is the veracity of this statement that is at question. You provided a link to video over an hour long as substantiation. I am not watching the whole of that video just to find out what is there. If you want to provide a minute at which the relevant portion starts I will look at that. I have to hear Biden in his own words, not some characterization of them.

I have seen video of Biden bragging openly about getting the Ukrainian government to fire Sholkin, but not a quote from Biden that links Biden's bragging to providing relief to his son, such as 'I got that prosecutor going after my son fired!' I am not unwilling to believe such an allegation per se. Biden is hardly my favorite candidate in the current primary. So, if it were true, it would be two birds with one stone.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Oct 4th, 2019 at 03:18:18 PM EST
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of course

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Oct 4th, 2019 at 03:59:28 PM EST
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A Timeline of the Trump-Ukraine Scandal | Lawfare blog |

The chain of events leading up to the inquiry is complicated--and the Washington Post has provided a helpful timeline of its own. To help sort through the story, we have put together a timeline of how allegations of wrongdoing by the Bidens in Ukraine percolated up through right-wing news circles to the president's desk, what the president and his lawyer have said and done about it, what the Ukrainian government has said about the situation, and how Congress has reacted.

Following cries from observers about Shokin's own ineptitude and corruption and pressure from Vice President Biden, among others, Shokin was fired in 2016. Shokin's firing drew praise from Western observers, including from the European Union's envoy to Ukraine, who noted that the firing of Shokin "creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general's office" and expressed "hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office ... becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust."



'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 06:52:59 PM EST
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There isn't one.  According to the "transcript" (which isn't actually a transcript but rather is a "summary" written by the White House), Trump made the accusation in yet another bout of verbal diarrhea, but both WSJ and Business Insider have stated no evidence has been presented to support the claim.  I'm not holding my breath.
by rifek on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 06:16:05 PM EST
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Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Oct 1st, 2019 at 06:21:41 PM EST
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
There are others, just use the Google
by StillInTheWilderness on Wed Oct 2nd, 2019 at 02:54:35 AM EST
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Shokin is the prosecutor that the USA, European Allies and international agencies all agreed was protecting the worst of the corruption. Biden was carrying out US policy at the time, policy set by Obama.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 2nd, 2019 at 03:22:27 AM EST
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Does that make it Holy Writ?

https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

Assuming the money was appropriated, it was a criminal act.
Biden's son's involvement meant he should have recused himself.

by StillInTheWilderness on Wed Oct 2nd, 2019 at 11:42:55 PM EST
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I learned a new word today "vacuity" ...

Let me say the piece written by Joe Biden and Michael Carpenter deserves that description: "vacuity."

From the introduction:

    ... and more broadly how to respond to the geopolitical challenge that Russia poses to the U.S. interests around the world.

    And let me say, I returned from Moscow a few days ago, and I was struck by how limited this relationship is, our bilateral relationship. It's actually less to it right now substantively than it was during most of the four decades of Cold War.

    I'm struck, too, by how different our views of the world are, ...

 

Oh dear, oh dear ... is that the result of not engaging with the Russian Federation after the Boris Yeltsin years of state asset theft?

From one of the U.S. Ambassadors to NATO in the range of Vicky Nuland - Kurt Volker - Ivo Daalder  - :

    Just as the United States resolved in the aftermath of World War II to counter the Soviet Union and its global ambitions, Mr. Obama is focused on isolating President Vladimir V. Putin's Russia by cutting off its economic and political ties to the outside world, limiting its expansionist ambitions in its own neighborhood and effectively making it a pariah state.

NATO Declares Russia Nr. 1 Adversary, Starts Troops Buildup

and  a former Secretary General of NATO Jaap de Hoop Scheffer:

"The West should respect the red lines of Russia."

And where would Wall Street prodigy Joe put the blame for the Cold War 2.0??

The Obama administration's decision to isolate Russia is a new version of "containment" | The Nation - May 2014 |
Cold War and containment from President Truman and George Kennan - 1947

A good read here @EuroTrib from 2007 ...

The dismantling of the Soviet Union, revisited.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 08:27:31 AM EST
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I would be interested in a link that shows this was a common position at the time.

Given the time and place where he was a career prosecutor it would not be surprising if he was corrupt. Then again, the Obama administration can't have been that concerned about corruption given the politicians they installed in Ukraine.

by fjallstrom on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 03:03:09 PM EST
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There is circulating in US culture today a common, colloquial measure of political expedience and moral rectitude anywhere that is seldom attributed to its author.

"An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought."

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Oct 3rd, 2019 at 03:39:45 PM EST
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The endemic culture of corruption was one good reason for leaving Ukraine alone and not bringing about the 'orange revolution' to begin with. In a place like Ukraine one is forced to go with what you got if you are to intervene. Those that have power and could be a useful ally are all corrupt and those that might be honest are pretty much impotent and useless.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Oct 7th, 2019 at 03:50:41 PM EST
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