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That would be a vote of confidence. If lost = no confidence.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Fri Sep 6th, 2019 at 03:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If lost, the Commons has 14 days to vote confidence in the Government or in someone else. Otherwise a general election is precipitated. Does that mean 14 sitting days, or do days during the prorogation count, in which case, effectively, the Commons has no opportunity to propose an alternate Prime Minister.

We shouldn't really have to be asking such questions, they should be clearly laid out either in a written Constitution or in legislation... or am I missing something?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Sep 6th, 2019 at 03:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Act just says "14 days". Probably Parliamentary working days, but it doesn't say.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 01:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is permitted, as a practical matter.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 04:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the letter of the law says I'm wrong. A defeated confidence motion is not the equal of a no-confidence motion for the purposes of the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act.

(3)An early parliamentary general election is also to take place if--

(a)the House of Commons passes a motion in the form set out in subsection (4), and

(b)the period of 14 days after the day on which that motion is passed ends without the House passing a motion in the form set out in subsection (5).

(4)The form of motion for the purposes of subsection (3)(a) is--

"That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government."

(5)The form of motion for the purposes of subsection (3)(b) is--

"That this House has confidence in Her Majesty's Government."

The above means that the PM cannot hope to trigger an election unless there is a no-confidence motion. Can the government propose no confidence in itself? I doubt if there's a precedent for it.

But fighting for the People against the entrenched elites is a battle that calls for unprecedented behaviour.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 01:26:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is the first time for everything.

Which is not to say that it, the first occurence of a thing, is inconceivable or has been observed by every one. Res ipsa loquitor.

Thus, one first reads the procedure (4) by Tory MPs to effect a failure of motion (5) on or about conclusion of the prorogation in effect. Calling into being an early parliamentary election without further ado.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 04:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If a VNC occurs AFTER prorogation, October 14, then there is a time problem The VNC allows 14 days to find an alternate PM or get a fresh VOC. Then law allows 25 days before an election can occur. But the Benn Bill requires the PM 'to seek and secure' an extension from the EU or a vote for a no deal Brexit by October 19. So Parliament has until the 27th, safely, to select a new PM. Should Pariament fail to select a new PM by October 28 Boris could ingnore the law then do nothing and let the UK crash out of the EU. So the Remainers should act decisively and quickly after

Recent events have shown that the Remain coalition CAN act quickly and decisively. They could do so again and replace Boris. Or not. If not, the triumphant Brexiteers would likely win a November Election and the UK would be out of the EU. That fact, and/or an act of Parliament could make it unlikely that Boris would be prosecuted for violating the law against a no deal Brexit.

However the EU requires that the Article 50 letter be submitted in compliance with the Constitution and Laws o the submitting country. So, should Boris ignore the law, the EU could deny the validity of the exit.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 08:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
after...a failure by the PM to 'seek and secure'.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 08:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU requires that the Article 50 letter be submitted in compliance with the Constitution
That is not quite correct. See Curia Case C‑621/18 judgment, in re: A.50 TEU; A. 54, 65, 67, 68 VCLT; UK European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018

Could you, please, retrieve the letter T. May submitted to D. Tusk describing the gov reasoning for an extension of the NO NEGOTIATION period?

Tusk, on behalf of EU Council, granted an extension with proviso. Could you, please, retrieve the reply to T. May by D. Tusk?

The contents of these materials are pertinent, model references as to the surety of any petition proffered to the EU Council by any PM on behalf of HRM or parliament in toto.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sat Sep 7th, 2019 at 09:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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