Blaming others for England's isolation [Update] | 51 comments (51 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 6)

"as the offshore western islands of Europe [we] are all part of a common whole, and if England or Britain loses so too will Ireland"

If geographical proximity is the main determinant to supposedly "being all part" of that so-called "common whole", then, surely, Northwestern France and Western Flanders can make that claim too: after all, the distance from Dover to Calais is about the same as the distance from Portpatrick to Bangor, and Ostende is almost as close to Ramsgate.

As it happens, the vast majority of nations in Europe have realized they are very much part of a common whole, and they decided to do something about that: it's called the European Union.

by Bernard on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 05:49:42 PM EST

Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 7)

Brexiteers have explicitly argued for Irexit, and even Remainers seem to think we should now throw in our lot with Britain because of "the historic ties between us". They seem utterly oblivious to the fact that those ties were over-archingly about involuntary dominance and submission, and that almost no one wants to go there again.

Their insensitivity to political feelings outside their immediate orbit is absolutely stunning. Just because we give them a warm welcome when they come here on holidays and many British expats have made their home here does not mean we want to have anything to do with British rule again, other than in the same way as European countries will maintain cordial relations with them.

For 40 odd years they did nothing but insult the EU and its members, and in N. Ireland they colluded with loyalist paramilitaries to kill innocent civilians and even set off bombs in Dublin and Monaghan and now were are supposed to be best buds. NOT going to happen.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 06:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 2)

Ah, "the historic ties between us", that old chestnut.

Like the historic ties between Britain and the USA or between France and Algeria: the ties between a former colonial power and a colonized country that fought a bitter independence war for getting rid of such "ties".

by Bernard on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 06:33:56 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 3)

One might hypothesize that New Zealand is one of the most Anglophilic countries out there, so perhaps they would be pretty enthusiastic about the UK taking back control.

But reports on the Radio New Zealand site suggests that their agricultural exports will be damaged by the pre-defined quota split between EU and UK. Most of their trade is with Australia, China, the US, and Japan. And their main geopolitical concern seems to be trying to balance relations between China, Australia, and the US.

It appears that in New Zealand, whether the UK is in or out of the EU is of tertiary interest at best.

by asdf on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 07:21:21 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 8)

Speaking from NZ: yes. Beyond a few English nationalist immigrants (or "expats" as they call themselves), the UK is an irrelevancy to us. Unimportant, overarmed, chiefly notable for the problems it causes, the sort of country we try and avoid. And as a country keen on free trade and free movement (when there's not a pandemic on), leaving the EU just seems like a colossal act of self-sabotage.

by IdiotSavant on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 09:51:32 PM EST
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Curiousity (none / 0)

Out of curiosity, if the EU offered New Zealand full membership of the Single Market and Customs Union, would NZ be inclined to accept? I appreciate that has never been seen as a real possibility.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Jan 2nd, 2021 at 11:59:36 AM EST
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Re: Curiousity (none / 1)

Relations

The EU is one of New Zealand's most important and active partners in the Pacific.

Wouldn't NZ a bit too Socialist to fit in present day capitalistic and populist driven E-27? Geez ... the Anglo-Saxon tribe wouldn't have it.

by Oui on Sat Jan 2nd, 2021 at 12:17:05 PM EST
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Re: Curiousity (none / 0)

The anglo-saxon tribe where amongst the most marketista in the EU when they were in it! I'm asking about membership of the Single Market and Customs Union, not full political membership!

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Jan 2nd, 2021 at 01:58:05 PM EST
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Re: Curiousity (4.00 / 4)

As in a trading relationship in which NZ farmers got to export all the milk and butter they wanted? Like a shot.

Obviously, there is more to it than that: regulations, common standards etc. But NZ is used to that sort of thing in its FTAs, and NZ farmers are awfully good at getting NZ politicians to swallow anything to give them a bigger market. And the broad alignment of values with the EU means the actual FTA we are negotiating has so far avoided the controversy such deals usually attract (probably because, thanks to the ECJ, there will be no ISDS clause. Thanks, ECJ!) (would being subject to the ECJ be an issue, given the hatred of ISDS clauses? Less so, I think, because its a real court, with a real and long established body of law, not just rich people going "wah wah government did something I don't like pay me all the imaginary money I thought I'd make if law and society didn't exist". Its not seen as undermining democracy or being opposed to the existence of legislatures in the same way that ISDS "tribunals" are).

by IdiotSavant on Sat Jan 2nd, 2021 at 10:26:41 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (none / 0)

"Here come the Hercules. Here come the submarines. Sinking South Pacific dreams."

by rifek on Sun Jan 17th, 2021 at 04:22:56 AM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 3)

UK politicians still haven't come to terms with the fact The Empire has fallen. They think they can do whatever they want, to whomever, whenever, without repercussion.

I see this in the US as well.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 06:46:07 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 3)

The US is in for some major surprises. The list of areas where our system is failing is pretty long. Our completely lack of icebreaking ships is just one example. Our inability to make 5 micron semiconductors is another. We can't even run an election, due to our badly wordsmithed 18th Century constitution.

by asdf on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 07:25:07 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (none / 1)

We can't even run an election, due to our badly wordsmithed 18th Century constitution.

Is that a problem? China isn't any better.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 07:28:10 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (4.00 / 2)

Well, we live under the impression that our system is great. I think it's a question of whether the US was successful in the 20th Century because of our system or in spite of our system.

by asdf on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 07:41:53 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (none / 1)

Just give us a few more years of exacerbating climate change, and we won't need icebreakers. Checkmate, Russia! Seriously though, you'd be hard-pressed to find a structural aspect of this country that isn't crumbling to dust. Education, communication, transportation, agriculture, manufacturing, energy, R&D, name it. We're in it deep. As for our Constitution, yes we give it way too much credit (Hells, I live in Utah where 3/4 of the population believe the thing was divinely inspired.). Unfortunately, it's now behaving once again as the Founders intended, namely ensuring governance and control by the Cracker Class. Look at the presidents through the 1848 election. Southerners with the following exceptions: 1) Adams from Massachusetts, one and done, driven out by a Virginian; 2) Adams from Massachusetts, one and done, driven out by a Tennesseean; 3) Van Buren from New York, who got there because he hitched his wagon to that Tennesseean but who was one and done at least in part because he was too much of a Yankee to keep the party unified behind him, so he was beaten by; 4) Harrison, ostensibly an Ohioan but really a War Hero candidate, and it doesn't matter anyway because he died immediately and was replaced by a...[checks notes]...Virginian. After Taylor comes the losing of control and the Civil War (or as I call it, The Terrorism Campaigns of the Southern-Fried Sedition Monkeys, which I find more accurate), and then one sees a big change. Except for Andrew "The Accident" Johnson and Woodrow "Political Cracker" Wilson, the South doesn't get a whiff of the White House until LBJ. And then? Two more Texans, a Georgian, and an Arkansasan. And now Trump has fled to Florida because he knows which side of the Sedition Line his base is on. Couple this with voter suppression and concentration of wealth, and the Founders would say the Constitution is getting back to something closer to what they had in mind.

by rifek on Sun Jan 17th, 2021 at 05:25:31 AM EST
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Welcome the English variant of the China virus... (4.00 / 5)

Witness the 200 UK skiing tourists in Switzerland who were ordered to quarantine by the Swiss authorities and who promptly scarpered all over the continent because those pesky regulations did not apply to them.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Dec 31st, 2020 at 08:06:19 PM EST
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Re: Welcome the English variant (4.00 / 2)

Contrast the 48 French citizens who have been stopped at the border driving home from a ski holiday in Switzerland, and not being able to show a negative COVID test, obliged to go into quarantine. The typical excuse given is that they didn't want to pay for a test in Switzerland, given that it's free in France... National character eh?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Sun Jan 3rd, 2021 at 10:44:39 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (none / 1)

The EU irrelevant as trading partner?

China, US and EU are the largest economies in the world

by Oui on Sun Jan 3rd, 2021 at 05:58:37 PM EST
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Re: Blaming others for England's isolation (none / 1)

Except there is ferry route from Portpatrick to Bangor!. Cairryan to Larne, on the other hand, is only 41 Miles by Ferry.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Jan 2nd, 2021 at 11:55:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Blaming others for England's isolation [Update] | 51 comments (51 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)