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I really doubt Sturgeon & Et. Al. don't want Independence.

I think they want to be sure:

  1.  They can force or manipulate Westminster to allow a referendum

  2.  They won't lose the referendum  

  3.  They call the referendum at the right time to achieve points 1 and 2

At the moment, this is not the moment.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Mon Sep 14th, 2020 at 06:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With Brexit going the way it is, the longer they leave it, the better their chances... The UK could be unrecognisably different in 5 years time.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:14:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Johnson government has four years to run, and I doubt a deal will be done during his tenure.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Sturgeon et al. really don't want independence, I imagine it's on economic grounds. The Tories will not be proposing a generous deal... And will negotiate in bad faith of course...

But hard Brexit changes that equation in a big way. Independence becomes a big plus as damage limitation in economic terms.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 at 10:43:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Scottish independence inside the EU would also solve the problem of the border down the Irish sea - at least as far as N. Ireland and Scotland is concerned. Of course it will create a border along parts of Hadrian's wall, or should we now call it Boris' wall?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 at 01:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hadrian's wall

Does this mean that you expect Boris (intentionally, of from ignorance) to give us a big chunk of England? Does Scotland even want it?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 at 01:45:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does any part of England, North of Oxford, interest Boris?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 at 01:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
North and West of Oxford are the Cotswolds, which are prime Tory shire land. So that will definitely interest Johnson.

He loses interest when the industrial Midlands start, which more or less means north of Coventry. Although there's another Tory enclave north of Leeds, with York, Harrogate, and the other posher parts of Yorkshire.

Workington Man was an election persona picked to typify Brexit-voting Labour supporters and the Red Wall, and the Red Wall tends to live on the deprived working class edge of these Tory utopias - the towns where Thatcher destroyed the industrial jobs in the 80s and the Tories blamed the survivors for their own poverty.

Then the Tories decided to blame the EU instead, and the rest is history.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 16th, 2020 at 06:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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