World Wide Electricity Super-grid | 44 comments (44 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

Obviously anyone installing solar farms would have to pay some sort of capital or rental cost for the use of the land there to the relevant government/landowner. Part of the price might be to develop and supply local grids thereby increasing their reliability and sustainability.

It would also make sense to manufacture solar panels locally (to avoid huge transportation costs) and that and their local transportation and installation would generate local employment. So it could be a win win all around.

Over time I would envisage solar farms to spread right across Saharan Africa to maximise generation for a longer period of the day. Depending on transmission costs it would also make sense to complement Saharan solar farms with Namibian ones, which would have their max output in the southern hemisphere summer at a time of max northern winter demand (and vice versa).

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 04:37:15 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

I would be surprised if solar panels in Africa are used to supply electricity to Europe. Just put them on rooftops all over, in solar panel farms, and in Spain if you get desperate. There are various calculations of how much land it would take, but it doesn't work out to be worth moving it across the Mediterranean.

by asdf on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 07:11:09 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

For all new build certainly. Without the grant there would have been a very long payback period on ours, and then only if paying a low rate of interest. It also doesn't resolve the periodicity and variability of solar output.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 08:14:35 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

I don't think solar panels in Sahara does much to solve the load balancing problem. To do that you need to store energy, or transport it from where there is a temporary surplus to where there is a temporary need.

You can use fuels that can burn (which are stored energy), or over build and waste (spilling) that which you don't need, or store energy. Hydro power with dams has the storage built in, but there is also rotating mass, batteries, and pumped storage (can be used with hydro).

Super grids has a place in improving connections on the continent to decrease the need for storage (when it blows to much in Spain and to little in Ireland or vice versa), to use existing storage better and to make it easier to construct more storage.

I think the European mountain ranges are really more important here then the African desert.

by fjallstrom on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 12:00:30 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

There is a pumped storage station just down the road from me which has been operational since 1973. It has an efficiency of c. 75%. More are planned, but have been slow to get off the ground...

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 12:26:19 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

A pumped storage installation is under consideration in Colorado. The cost estimate is interesting:

Pumped-storage hydro projects cost about $2,000 per kilowatt to build, according to the National Hydropower Association. (That compares to about $1,800 per kilowatt for utility-scale solar and $1,400 per kilowatt for onshore wind turbines.)

Of course it is difficult to make a direct comparison between a source like wind or solar and a storage system, but the need for storage is also pretty clear.

by asdf on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 04:05:18 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

But the pumped hydro should work for a century instead of 30 years.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 27th, 2022 at 09:35:58 PM EST
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Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

Efficient production of hydrogen, whether from electrolysis or directly photocatalytic, are an essential part of the mix. Either for storage/peak production (if the efficiency is high enough) or for transport fuel (need to replace all that petroleum real soon), it will quickly dominate road transport once the price is right.

I hadn't looked at the state of the research recently, but there is a lot of it, with lots of very promising pathways. I hope it can scale up quickly.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 26th, 2022 at 01:24:40 PM EST
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New year, same Desertec solution (none / 0)

archived best idea since jesus on a stick with wheels

by Cat on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 08:48:51 PM EST
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Re: New year, same Desertec solution (none / 1)

I was waiting for that!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 27th, 2022 at 09:39:26 PM EST
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World Wide Electricity Super-grid | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)