To Intervene or Not to Intervene -- Role Military Force | 141 comments (141 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 1)

For starters, Zelensky is a person in the middle of centrifugal forces. He "leads" a divided nation. The oligarchs are split in pro-West and pro-Russian with all sides allied with Israel. Israel does not stand by the US on policy vis-a-vis Ukraine. Similarly Turkey has strong historic ties to Crimea and is supplying attack drones.

The war hawks in Zelensky's cabinet are the ministers of Defense Oleksii Reznikov and Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba. Zelensky is not safe in his own Capitol Kyiv and regularly threatened by the fascists from western region of Lviv.

How wonderful not being a member and receiving the most advanced arms, training by NATO specialists and commando training by the global elites.

In addition from the IMF, European Union, United States and extra from Poland, Ukraine receives massive economic support and financial relief.

As actor Zelensky is comfortable on stage, never has in his career did he receive a standing ovation before uttering a word.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Mon Feb 21st, 2022 at 11:19:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Just to be prepared for any and all events ...

Zelensky expands war cabinet of National Defense Council | July 14, 2021 |

Seven more people entered the war cabinet of the National Security and Defense Council

A new minister of defense was installed early November ... the talks were underway between Ukraine and Gazprom for an extended long-term contract ... nothing came of it. Why? Blaming Russia ...

Angry U.S.-Russia Exchange at U.N. Punctuates Deepening Ukraine Rift | NY Times |

With vitriolic accusations that echoed the Cold War era, the United States and Russia sparred in a bitter debate over the Ukraine crisis in a Security Council meeting watched by the world.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Mon Feb 21st, 2022 at 11:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 1)

It looks like the Russian Security Council meeting today ended up supporting the recognition of LPR and DPR if Ukraine doesn't stand down immediately.

The West will respond with sanctions, but Russia can resist them (said Medvedev). That will kinda clear the situation obviously for all parties, if it happens.

If West implements sanctions, then it can't use them to "protect" Ukraine anymore. Ukraine will be much less likely to continue "join operations" in the Donbass area and peace can be restored.

With "Ukraine crisis" solved and the Olympics out of the way, the world can then move on to solve the European security arrangements, because Russia sure won't let that go away until it is solved one way or the other.

Ukraine says they're not attacking anyone or shelling anything, but OSCE monitors observed an explosion every minute of Saturday and Russians say they captured one Ukrainian soldier on the Russian side of the border trespassing from Luhansk (with at least 5 others in 2 IFVs).

by pelgus on Mon Feb 21st, 2022 at 03:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

OK so Putin has launched a police operation to protect Russian speakers (do they make them do a language test before deciding to protect them?)

Are they going to cross the ceasefire line to liberate the entire Donbass, or not?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 08:02:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Don't be ridiculous ... Kyiv passed laws to discriminate Russian speaking citizens, censorship in the media, treating them as foreigners and traitors ... read up a bit about collaborations with Nazi Germany, Galicia, extermination of Jews ... now their heroes Bandera, and so forth. Revisionism of history, similar to close ally Poland. The Dutch voted against Ukraine becoming an association member of the EU in a referendum.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 11:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Frankly any post which brings in WWII collaboration is not worthy of a response.

Or perhaps we can blame Putin for the millions of deaths during the forced collectivisation of the 1930s?

It's complicated to discuss anything when three unrelated issues are conflated in a single post. The Dutch voted against Ukraine because of a plane shot down by a Russian missile.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 11:26:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

The Dutch voted against Ukraine because of a plane shot down by a Russian missile.

❓

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 12:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

My bad. Obviously you know Dutch society better than I do. I had the impression that Dutch electors were, in the majority, favourable to the treaty, but that turnout was depressed because of the plane crash (rather nonsensically, because obviously the Ukraine authorities had nothing to do with it, but that's public opinion)

You seem to be saying that the referendum was lost because of Dutch concerns about antisemitism in the Ukraine. I'll take your word for it.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 02:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

WWII collaboration

It is when today these persons are seen as heroes and monuments erected with annual commemoration. Militants follow Nazi doctrine of racism and anti-semitisme. Ban these idiots and the world will be a better place. US Capital insurrection, Massacre on Utøya, New Zealand Mosque Shooting, etc.

Leave everyone their heroes, Confederacy, battle heroes and sowing hatred. I will renounce them ☮️

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 12:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Well, here you go again conflating everything. It's true that people in the USA and in the Ukraine are allowed to celebrate Nazism, and that'a a bad thing (but probably not a motive for military intervention). But the Danish shooter at Utoya and the Australian shooter in Christchurch were self-educated fascists, and I'm not sure how that can be banned.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 01:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Sorry, Norwegian. Apologies to Danish fascists.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 02:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

Honestly, lots of countries have passed laws about which languages are used... Generally a really bad idea, and far too common, including among EU nations. If every such case justified military intervention, it's hard to think of a European country that wouldn't be at war now.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 11:30:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Intervene or Not to Intervene (none / 0)

So, if you think that Putin sent in the army to protect persecuted ethnic Russians, this means that you believe that they are not going to stop at the ceasefire line?

Or at least, that you hope they won't.

Because they can't protect any persecuted people if they only occupy the territories already controlled by their proxies.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 01:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To Intervene or Not to Intervene -- Role Military Force | 141 comments (141 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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