Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
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Needless to lecture me on the "old days" ... proud to wear UID #40 here @ET and UID #430 @BT .... nominated by both communities for the Sandy Koufax Award ... days of Jerome, Whataboutbob, Sirocco, ask, Londonbear, heathlander, shergald and many others. I am sure I haven't changed, perhaps from a centrist to a bit more to the left and progressive. The concept of America, democracy, corruption, and military enforcement of "moral values" surely mutated. Truly horrific.

'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Thu Mar 17th, 2022 at 03:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not trying to lecture you: I know this is a futile endeavor.

You haven't only changed a bit more to the left and progressive: your detestation of the American system, corruption, military enforcement and all, has led you to justify the imperialist wars of aggression of a murderous dictator.

I know that many of your diaries over the years have been motivated by your generosity and your truly genuine horror of the abuses of the US system and their relays in Europe and elsewhere.

Just because Putin strongly opposes the USofA doesn't mean we have to side with his fascist rhetoric and relay his talking points.

I'm truly saddened by what your writings have turned into.

by Bernard (bernard) on Thu Mar 17th, 2022 at 08:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The European Union was founded on the principles to prevent war. The war in the Ukraine was needless and should have been prevented ... leaders lacking courage and a Joe Biden, responsible for the coup d'etat of Feb. 2014, set the goal to finish the task no matter at what cost. The EU-27 has lost its innocence and Europe will be worse for it.

In no way do I condone war of choice, nor the dictatorial regime Putin build in Russia.

I always hope other writers step up to the plate and contribute by posting diaries. My pen hasn't dried up, however aim to post much less in coming days/weeks.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Thu Mar 17th, 2022 at 10:10:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If i may insist, substack is free both the writer and the reader (although there are paying options). It includes commenting and layout possibilities. Why wait? Dont let us without your uniquely deep historical perspective.
by Tom2 on Fri Mar 18th, 2022 at 03:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thx, much appreciated.

One of my weaknesses is loyalty ... I have been blogging since the presidential campaign of 2004 ... I started at big bad Daily Kos and moved with Martin Longman to BooMan Tribune early 2005. With the pie wars of spring 2005 at Markos Moulitsas Zúniga's dKos a surge of lady writers left the site and joined BooMan Tribune.

We set up a series of Welcome Wagons for newbies to get acquainted and introduce themselves. This build a great community spirit. By June 2005 the 5000th member was welcomed and the site blossomed with a truly great diversity of excellent writers. Intens and great time for many years, surviving  wars, and presidential elections. The community shared grief and joy.

Martin's political wisdom grew into a professional site now called Progress Pond ... link on top still under "BooMan Tribune" 😀 An original author writing on BT was Emptywheel.

Early in 2005 an European forum was started by Jerome a Paris. Excellent reading with a variety of sec topics for readers on this side of the Atlantic. Gradually the mix of writers based in America ebbed away and ET got its own identity. I wear UID #40 proudly.

My writing at dKos was under the handle "creve coeur", the location I happily lived for ten years and finished my college education in engineering doing fundamental research. From the earliest beginnings of blogging, readers have always shown appreciation for my thorough research of the topics. Heritage and French legend of Creve Coeur, Missouri.

I was honored to be banned by the dKos police vigilantes, banned but restored in my rights shortly thereafter 😂 ... within six months is was banned again for writing about The Netherlands, but an American living in Amsterdam disagreed with my version of state affairs and I was banned definitely. I wear it as a badge of honor.

I left BT when the RussiaGate followers starting troll rating all my posts without any arguments. McCarthyism returned to so-called progressive blogs. Censoring dissent.

A lovely memory of my labor @BooMan was the unmasking of Anna Chapman within a few hours when she became a member of the blog. 🤣

Anna Chapman calling on Booman Tribune

Link from my diary here @ET ...

DECEPTION: The Untold Story of East-West Espionage Today

A follow-up ...

The Big Spy Swap: The U.S.-Russia Secret Agent Exchange 10 Years Ago | RFERL - Ju,y 8, 2020 |

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Fri Mar 18th, 2022 at 08:19:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui (Oui) on Fri Mar 18th, 2022 at 08:37:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The European Union was founded on the principles to prevent war. The war in the Ukraine was needless and should have been prevented

Indeed. It is a shame that the European Union has never, until these past couple of weeks, given itself the means to have any serious influence in defence matters.

If you recall, Putin was crystal clear from the start, that he wanted to negotiate with Biden and nobody else : the master of Nato.

So, hypothetically, they might have negotiated. Given that Putin's non-negotiable conditions included the disarming of the front-line NATO states, that would have needed a formal decision by all of the NATO member governments. The hypothesis that the USA decides everything in NATO would have been tested, and found to be false, because there is not the slightest chance that the front-line states would have accepted to disarm.

So from that point of view, no, the war could not have been prevented, and Putin knew it perfectly.

His only miscalculation was thinking that he could win the war he had already decided to launch, and that this would give him a strategic advantage. Instead, he has plunged Russia into decades of torment (Ukraine will recover much quicker)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Mar 18th, 2022 at 11:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given that Putin's non-negotiable conditions included the disarming of the front-line NATO states

As I remember it, it was limited to nuclear weapons outside the home territory, and the Bush era missile bases in Poland and Rumania. Is this what you are refering to or were the demands more extensive than I remember? I tried finding it, but search enigines are so crappified.

by fjallstrom on Thu Mar 24th, 2022 at 01:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui (Oui) on Thu Mar 24th, 2022 at 02:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.

From there the link to the Russian foreign ministry is blocked from here (can probably go around with a VPN, but annoying).

ABC reports:

The Russian draft treaties call for NATO to remove any troops or weapons from countries that joined the alliance after 1997, meaning most of Eastern Europe, including Poland, the Baltic states and Balkan countries. It also calls for the U.S. and Russia to refrain from deploying troops in areas where they could be perceived as a threat to each countries' national security, and a ban on sending their aircraft and warships into areas where they could strike each other's territory. The treaty would also ban the deployment of intermediate-range missiles in Europe.

The limits on NATO in Eastern Europe are seen as a non-starter by most experts. Most analysts in Moscow believe the Kremlin itself is aware that the proposals are unrealistic. Some said that rather than real goals, they may represent an opening gambit aimed at winning some concessions.  

Bolded the part eurogreen referenced. That does sound like disarmament, and would probably have been vetoed.

by fjallstrom on Thu Mar 24th, 2022 at 03:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui (Oui) on Thu Mar 24th, 2022 at 04:33:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for these and also for the additional details on your involvement in the early days of ET (my own UID is in triple digits).

You have of course noticed that the site is a pale shadow of its former self; only a handful of us are commenting and posting diaries. Others have moved to, probably, [anti-]social networks like FB or Twitter.

Those who occasionally come back are horrified, not by the lack of content, but by the sheer deluge of pro-Putin regime talking points or outright propaganda, and not in small quantity.

You mentioned you do not "condone war of choice, nor the dictatorial regime Putin build in Russia".

Really? Pretty much everything you've been writing about Ukraine over the past months is echoing the  talking points of that very same dictatorial regime you claim not to condone.

You mentioned once that you read a lot (good) and that you have a lot of time for blogging - given your age, I suppose. Well, I don't: I'm not retired and I have a day job. I'm hanging out here during the evening or WE.

I like debating here on ET and I'm OK with the gnome duties (Newsroom, Open Thread & all).

The trouble is: you are putting so much content, lengthy comments in large quantities, that you are, literally crowding out the other commenters, putting dozen of comments while other think carefully before posting (I know I do).

Your diaries and your comments, on the other hand are lengthy, unstructured ramblings, a quick cut-and-past job, putting on the same level some serious journalistic work and some comment from "a dude on the Internet", an article from today next to another one from years ago,... This is literally diluting any message or opinion you wanted to convey. It's often difficult to notice where your diary ends and where your comments begin; that's how confused it is.

I had to search all over the place to find this statement where it turns out you don't condone wars of "choice" (invading a neighboring country is a choice, right?) and that Putin is a dictatorial regime.

Because again: you literally drowning out other commenters. I'll freely admit: I resent that.

Your prolific, yet hardly structured or at times intelligible fire-hose is also repelling those you came back and wanted a serious discussion: I resent that too.

You wrote this three days ago: My pen hasn't dried up, however aim to post much less in coming days/weeks.

Frankly, what you claim and what you write are - again - two different things. We've hardly seen any change from your usual one-diary-a-day-if-not-two pattern.

You claim to be attached to Eurotrib? Then, do us a favor and practice what you claimed. Your diaries and comments were certainly not the main cause for ET's decline, but given the present state it doesn't take much to kill it for good.

by Bernard (bernard) on Sun Mar 20th, 2022 at 09:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At the time I was blogging at dKos as "creve coeur" in September 2004, the number of diaries written by the hour were excessive. The life span of a recommended diary was a matter of hours, and with high recommendations perhaps a day.

Martin Longman started BooMan Tribune with a extra top diary section for international writers. That was nice, although these also were listed in the general top diary section. This led to some criticism. Next to Frank Schnittger and myself, there were quite a few global writers on the sites with weekly contributions. Jerome, ask, Londonbear, Mattes, Sirocco, heathlander, Hurria, shergald, and a few from Germany and Australia.

As time went by, many moved on and quite likely social media was attractive to some. In the end both Frank and myself stayed on @BooMan. Having seen a number of flame wars on domestic American politics, the division on the site started as the election cycle of 2016 came to a close. Nearer the election date, the DNC group demanded blinded loyalty to the cause of HRC. Be with us or be damned. Personally I had wished for Bernie Sanders to be the nominee for the Democrats, it was not to be.

As soon as HRC lost the election to a misogynist and extreme rightwing fool Trump all hell broke loose. After her derogatory remarks about a basket of deplorables, her campaign and numbers started a backslide that gained speed after the remarks by FBI head Comey. The Hillary fans thought it time to attack community bloggers who had not "fully" supported her and were in the corner of Sanders. The intelligence community did a last attempt to unseat Trump by the whole RussiaGate episode and impeachments which did further damage to American politics and fueled the Red-Blue states divide.

Impeachment was not going to happen. So America went after Putin ... he did it.

In 2017-18 European Tribune was a desolate place. A recommended diary stayed up until expiration date. Most of the time the column did not reached 8 diaries, but often just six. Do I overcrowd (?) or is there lacklustre appetite to write an article. A number of times I suggested as such ... step up to the plate in baseball terms.

No surprise there is deep rooted division in an approach to contain Russia or try to get Russia closer to the European culture and tied to the EU and global economy. The Neocons of US foreign policy have chosen for the last two decades to destroy the regime of the Kremlin.

I saw no response to a number of suggestions, so I willingly lowered the number of comments about the War on Ukraine and wrote an article about the crucial role of Turkey and the Middle East. A breaking news item about former MP Ian Austin was the second article. I sense the criticism is more about my dissenting view than the number of diaries in recent months.

After the years of Brexit to keep the newspaper columns filled, Europe was confronted with the Covid-19 pandemic and kept all of us on edge. Tolerance level has decreased and patience is short. In the chaos of today, there is a power grab by the military and intelligence. The UK is out of the EU and the EU-27 is further weakened by division Old and New. Both Putin and Trump/Biden exploit this division. The AUKUS incident of cutting submarine ties with France in preference to GB was an early indication. After demonizing the Kremlin and Russia to full extent, all eyes will focus on China. The US has a long list of using crippling economic sanctions to put pressure on a nation and harm its people. Germany sees very harsh economic years ahead, the motor of the EU is sputtering.

The confrontation happening today will have a profound change on global politics for the next decades. An immense historical event that should be commented on and not result in closing shop. The ultimate form of censorship.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 06:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, it would seem that they cannot refute the facts. When i came here after you advertised for ET elsewhere (frankly i wonder why) there was a diary on alcohol in Ireland that stayed top of column for weeks if not months.
Some truths are hard to hear.
http://www.pascalboniface.com/2022/02/18/lemprise-la-france-sous-influence-4-questions-a-marc-endewe ld/
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 08:10:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is an interesting link, Tom2. Do you want to discuss the economic vassalisation of France under Macron? I'm up for it. Probably we shoud do it in a new thread?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 12:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 
Do I overcrowd (?)

Yes.

Next question :

I saw no response to a number of suggestions, so I willingly lowered the number of comments about the War on Ukraine and wrote an article about the crucial role of Turkey and the Middle East.

No, you posted YET ANOTHER diary about the Ukraine war.

I sense the criticism is more about my dissenting view than the number of diaries in recent months.

From my experience in recent weeks, I would say that your refusal to respond or to engage in discussion of your views is the probleme; but maybe that's just me?

It's true that most people don't bother to respond to you, because they can see that it's fruitless.

Here's a proposition, Oui : I believe you are in good faith in saying you don't want to kill the site. SO : When you post a diary, spend a bit of time discussing things with the people who respond to it.

Don't post another diary until the discussion runs out.

If nobody responds to your diary, don't post another one.

Deal?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 11:41:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I understand the cause of the misunderstanding. Oui or me are not using the internet as a social media but as an archive. People who know the quality of some diaries at Eurotrib will check for some information by searching for "eurotrib" "[researched object]" on Google.
So for me at least, the fact that the diaries are "dumped" are not meant to start a conversation but precisely to create an archive where relevant material is grouped thematically.
Hope that helps.
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 12:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
wow, so this is specifically about propagating specific views to a wider audience by profiting from the perception of high-quality diaries on Eurotrib?

I have already raised the problem of reputational damage resulting from the bulk of the content being not representative of the views of most of the site's participants. But several people have already raised the quality-control issue, which is a far more serious one. Oui's diaries are simply not up to the standard of a Eurotrib diary.

It's also possible that Tom2 is having some mischeivous fun with us. We'd better let Oui answer for herself.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 01:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"propagating specific views"
how on earth is quoting official documents identical to propagating views?
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 01:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
.. I fail to see why obliging people to take position in a conflict that is not theirs, and where they don't fight nor have they relatives fighting, would be some sort of evident 'moral'.
On the other side, a large majority of the world states are since 3 weeks watching the EU and the US with incredulity. Basically, it was demonstrated 3 weeks ago by American economists themselves that a war between Russia and Nato/Ukraine/whatever would provoke a world famine. What do you suggest? Any military expert will tell you that the power balance is from day one in favour of Russia. You don't engage your forces when you know you are going to lose.
Unless of course you have a recession and you need a smoke screen. This is as old as humanity and most people are not fool.
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 01:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Any military expert will tell you that the power balance is from day one in favour of Russia.

Any military expert expected Putin to take Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian regime within a week, tops.

So much for military experts.

You don't engage your forces when you know you are going to lose.

It's a shame Putin didn't realise that.

But if you're talking about a forthcoming war between NATO and Russia, forget it. Nobody here is advocating it, and nobody among NATO governments either.

With respect to world famine (and especially famine in the Middle East) the key is for the Russian troops to go home before the planting season.

And if any military expert suggests that Russia would "win" a war with NATO, can you provide a link?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 01:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, again. When you have no gas to put in your military trucks and places, that your people are freezing because the heating is off, and you are busy bombing the Red Square, who is supposed to be working and keeping the energy and critical resources production and circulation in place?
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 01:56:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you could outline your scenario, we could conceivably discuss it, if there were any interest. Who is bombing the Red Square in your fantasy world? Currently all the bombs are falling in Ukraine, as I suspect you know.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are talking of a war between to of the richest countries in the world (in terms of their underground), and between some of the richest oligarchs in the world (both sides even have extra Israeli passports in case they need additional off-shore business which is perfectly integrated to the intl markets).
The EU is just offering itself as a champ de bataille for a long war between the US and China. If you think it has any chance to benefit from the war, you are delusional.
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually from my point of view, it's more a question of the right to self-determination and freedom from invasion and the slaughter of civilians. If that is too simple for you, I'm sorry.

I am on record on the internet as having opposed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, by the way. This is the most clearcut example of one nation invading the other that I can think of since those two. It is not only war in Europe that bothers me.

richest countries in the world (in terms of their underground)

Yes, I've read that the depth of the Kiev metro system is saving lots of lives.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:32:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Following on "propagating specific views", the algorithm of Google makes it that a normal user won't find eurotrib on top. So either you already know it, and you type "eurotrib" or you don't. In addition to that, depending on the second keyword term, you might not find the most obscure diaries but rather any title that includes the term; if a country that will result in a lot of results. So I would say that this is unnecessary paranoia from you.
by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm just pointing out that if Oui's strategy is as you describe, then it amounts to parasitic piggybacking and there is a good argument for deleting her diaries.

Dumps of material which is not intended for discussion is not the vocation of this site. Substack or whatever would indeed be better, as you have suggested.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"her" diaries?? he already answered you on that.
on top of everything, this is misoginy.

you are right on one point: Oui should have a substack

by Tom2 on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then I shall apologise to him. Honest mistake, and I fail to see in what respect it is misogynistic.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Mar 21st, 2022 at 02:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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