Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

I read / He leído

The English half / La mitad inglesa   3 votes - 50 %
The Spanish half / La mitad castellana   0 votes - 0 %
Both halves / Las dos mitades   3 votes - 50 %
Neither half / Ninguna de las dos mitades   0 votes - 0 %
 
6 Total Votes
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Isn't this the first totally bilingual diary? And the first to embed a YouTube link...

Great work, Mig! (I'll get back to the subject matter later...)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 02:47:15 AM EST
No, it is the second totally bilingual diary (see Arde Galicia/Galicia Burns)

It is the first to embed a youtube video, as far as I know.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 05:01:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aaargh! How could I forget? (I did...) Great work anyway.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 09:58:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ritter did it months ago.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 06:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Link?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 06:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmmmm, I can't find it. Maybe it was a comment not a diary. (I recall that after I saw it, I experimented with the code myself, with little success...)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 06:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These bilingual diaries are a whole lotta work.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 05:02:30 AM EST
This is a great diary, it is great to have the origial availabel. Thanks for extra work!!!
by Fran on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 08:33:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the side by side format is a real breakthrough.
I hope others will consider using it in the future.

Good work!

(You might want to explain what formatting you used so others can follow your pattern.)

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 09:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Explained here after my previous bilingual diary.

Other people have been using the format in comments, in French and German.

There was another comment somewhere on the fine points of interacting with the ET auto-format parser. Maybe afew can find that comment thread and link to it?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 09:44:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There were several discussions, but this one is probably the most informative.

Briefly: usually we type comments in the Post Comment window and leave the drop-down box between the Preview and Post buttons at its default position, Auto Format. The Scoop HTML parser then adds stuff we don't need to bother about, like line-breaks, paragraphs, etc.

If we use table tags to produce the two columns, the Scoop parser (why I don't know) adds blank lines at the top and buggers things up. So we have to choose HTML Formatted instead of Auto Format. The whitespace then disappears.

I must write this up, collating the experience of those who've done the bilingual columns, and put it in the User Guide.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 10:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the reason is that at the top of the table there is
<table>
<tr>
<td>
Text

which the parser turns into three line breaks.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 10:27:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps, but if you do < table >< tr >< td >blabla< /td>< /tr > etc (on the same line), you get the same result, I found.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 11:50:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's exactly what I do in my comments.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, the Firefox live bookmark with the RSS feed ignores this diary, as does the list available at Feedburner if you click on the icon at foot of page. The feed doesn't seem to take promoted diaries into account.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 11:54:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was rather hoping the feedburner feed would fix that. It's one of those things that is beyond my powers as it depends on stuff I can't get at.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 11:59:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Diary now completed.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 05:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With poll!

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 05:50:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"These bilingual diaries are a whole lotta work."

Man, I can imagine!  My wife (an educated native Spanish speaker) translates, usually English to Spanish but occasionally the other way. Her English vocabulary is better than mine and she sweats some pieces.  Is there a really good reason to translate on an English language site.  I understand there are nuances and maybe a wider audience issue, but a steady diet of translating would drive most people (me for one)insane.


I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 12:00:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sh*t, I was writing you a log reply and lost it...

Anyway, just survey the Coments,  and Diaries  on multilingualism [starting with this excellent summary by DoDo from 3 months ago].

You don't see it, but a lot of the content here is translated (and, I would guess, about half is digested) from non-English sources. We have had bilingual comments, especially since I introduced the two-column format, and diaries in other languages (these with little success except for one by Afew that sparked one of the epic ET pie fights). Disclaimer: I am one of the big pushers for a multilingual ET.

Also have a look at the Eurobarometer: Europeans and their Languages to get an idea of how being an English-only site limits our reach and our potential to be the pan-European blog.

Spaniards are not far ahead of Mexicans in our ability to speak or write English, or any other languages, and diaries like this are an attempt at drawing in a crowd of Spaniards with good passive English skills.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 04:04:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you've convinced me.  I just thought the pain would be too much and didnn't consider all the benefits.  Your bilingual skills are exceptional, but I know translating technical material still takes a lot of patience.  So, my hat's off to you and many thanks for what you and others are doing.  I never even thought about all the hidden work already being done when material is translated from Spanish (or another language) into English without the side by sides.  My Spanish is still bad after almost 40 years of marriage  (a few courses), and numerous long visits to Spanish speaking countries.  Political commentary in Spanish is particularly difficult for me though I am making some progress now that we are spending more time in Mexico. Your side by sides may also become a factor in improving my Spanish skills as well as those of others (as you note).

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 10:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting articles also.  Looks like Europeans as a group are becoming more multilingual, particularly in certain second languages.  I would guess the same trend may occurring in the US with large scale immigration from various places, but I doubt much of that trend can be attributed to families that do not include at least one immigrant member.  Americans as a whole, I believe, still tend to be rather insular in their thinking.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 11:25:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Spanish right wing really has no shame.

I am starting to wonder, if there is any right-wing party in any country of this world that has a sense of shame.

by Fran on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 08:32:42 AM EST
The PP is frighteningly slimy. Do you still think (as you and kcurie have said in the past) that the left holds all the strong cards against it? In other words, has anything happened to change that judgement?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 10:20:47 AM EST
Wait till you see the bit I added at the end about GEES.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 05:50:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think as long as the Socialist voters stay mobilised, the PP cannot win an election.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 06:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
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