Who should run against Merkel?

Beck	1 vote - 16 %
Steinmeier	0 votes - 0 %
Wowereit	4 votes - 66 %
Müntefering	1 vote - 16 %
Steinbrück	0 votes - 0 %

6 Total Votes

No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? (with poll) | 25 comments (25 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? (4.00 / 18)

Tip jar

Okay, so the pictures I chose might be "fair and balanced" in the Faux Noise- way, but that's my diary. And the whole thing is a little messed up, but I always like to digress. Sue me.
BTW, the latest poll for Saxony is the first ever (in the history of the republic) that showed SPD and CDU combined to be under 50% somewhere.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 10:31:09 AM EST

Well done (4.00 / 2)

We've had very few diaries on German politics lately, unfortunately, so this is most welcome - and useful on its own.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 05:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Procedurial question (4.00 / 3)

How does SPD choose its chancellor candidate? And when?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 02:01:51 PM EST

Re: Procedurial question (4.00 / 2)

There's no formal procedure. Most times, there will be some haggling behind closed doors and after it's clear who will become the candidate, he gets crowned at a party convention (in the spring of 2009 probably).
If there are two guys who won't compromise, the party delegates at the convention decide by voting, but I can't remember that has ever happened.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

who can beat Merkel in 2009? (with poll) (4.00 / 3)

Great! <whew!> When is the last time we heard from somebody about German politics?? Keep the commentaries coming, Turambar!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 02:26:37 PM EST

Re: No German Idol: (4.00 / 4)

IS Merkel to he left of most major left-wing European parties...

And what about the SPD and its economic policies.. are they sound??

I msut say I love Germany.. and I think that east Germany is a great palce to live.. if you ahve a job... so.. is this the main goal of any german economic policy...

Everyday life is nto expensive.. flat are cheap.. houses are cheap... and compared to average salaries icnredibly cheap..... so everybody says that the key point is having a job. this is what I got form my twoo-week visit to spanish friends in east Germany (berlin, Jena, erfurt)...

what do you think??

great diary.....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 02:56:43 PM EST

Re: No German Idol: (4.00 / 2)

I should put together my Frankfurt holiday diary soon...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: (4.00 / 4)

SPD economic policies: pretty much the trickle- down economics we see everywhere, with a slight touch of state intervention (proposal of a minimum wage etc.)
Merkel: she's stolen some of the SPD's positions and talking points (on family, the environment) and because she has to hold the coalition together, she's more centrist than any Chancellor we had. Not to the left.
living and working in Germany: I don't think of life as being cheap here, but as being repulsively expensive in, say, London. I've never been anywhere else for more than a month, so I guess it depends on what you compare it to. Official unemployment figures went down 16% in the last 12 months.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:24:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 4)

I still hold out the hope that one of the non-frontrunners is silently preparing a flash campaign to take over the party. Of those named, of course I like Heidemarie most (tho' I don't know Böhrnsen), but fat chance in hell she could subdue all the bigshots just in her own party.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 04:46:35 PM EST

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 2)

Who knows, maybe we'll even see Schröder's Second Coming?

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wovereit should do a "Delanoë"... (4.00 / 2)

Grab a lively policy initiative like Velib (the free-bike scheme) and run with it. Some spectacular (and very green) transport initiative should do it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 05:51:51 PM EST

Thoughts (4.00 / 5)

Gabriel and Steinbrück are both damaged goods - lost state elections as PMs before becoming ministers.
Gabriel is widely seen as the most ambitious of the lot. My gut feeling is if he sees as much as a shred of support in the party, he'll make a play for it.
Steinmeier is (or at least used to be) very close to Gerhard Schröder. He was Schröder's chief of staff, and the two go back a long way. Steinmeier's chances at the nomination might come down to a test of how much influence Schröder still has in the party.
Unless the party nominates somebody with cred on the left, they will get slaughtered by the Linke and the Greens. That to me suggests an advantage for Müntefering, Tiefensee, Platzeck, and Wieczorek-Zeul. My money is currently on Müntefering and Tiefensee.
Am I the only one here who sees a semblance between "Red Heidi" (Wieczorek-Zeul) and Ségolène Royal?

If you can't convince them, confuse them. (Harry S. Truman)

by brainwave on Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 at 09:35:41 PM EST

Re: Thoughts (4.00 / 2)

Unless the party nominates somebody with cred on the left, they will get slaughtered by the Linke and the Greens. That to me suggests an advantage for Müntefering, Tiefensee, Platzeck, and Wieczorek-Zeul.

On Müntefering: he's perceived to have some "left cred" in the public (because of the "locust debate"), but not so much inside the party (he's for higher retirement age etc.).

Tiefensee: almost no one knows him. He'd have to come out into the sunshine pretty soon. On the plus side, elections are essentially won in east Germany, because there are the most swing voters.

That's also a plus for Platzeck. But he disappointed many of his fans when he had to give up again just after becoming party leader.

"Red Heidi": now this is a joke, right? I mean, just picture her meeting Bush and try not to laugh.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 03:41:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts (4.00 / 2)

As far as Tiefensee goes, he's pushing hard and vocally to privatize the railroad - a proposition with a lot more political momentum than popularity.

If that isn't enough to kill his career ambitions once and for all, there is justice in this...

Wait, what am I saying!?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 04:23:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts (4.00 / 3)

he's pushing hard and vocally to privatize the railroad
That seems to be in the job description for a minister of transportation, as it's been planned for more than 10 years now and will happen sooner or later. The question is how to preserve which level of (federal and state) control over the DB. Tiefensee is certainly too confident about market mechanisms, no one wants to repeat the British example.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 06:13:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts (4.00 / 2)

it's been planned for more than 10 years now and will happen sooner or later.

Unfortunately. (It's been planned ever since Deutsche Bahn became DB AG, back in the Kohl era [Dürr era for DB].)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 07:08:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 2)

As far as I can see Wowi and Steinmeier are both damaged goods as well. Wowi lost the suit of Berlin against the federal government for aid in reducing the deficit and IMO made a mistake in going into a unstable second red-red coalition instead of opting for red-green. Politically it made some sense, but in terms of policy and governance, not so much.

Steinmeier still has to face some questions on the case of Murat Kurnaz.

Merkel, by the way, has an approval rating at mid-time of 76% (de). If nothing major (very, very major) changes, this means that the SPD can't fight the next elections on personality, as they did with the last.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 09:56:39 AM EST

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 3)

the SPD can't fight the next elections on personality
As I've tried to show, it's not a promising way to win, but I also don't think they can fight successfully on policy issues without blowing up the coalition. They can't really go to the left, so they are stuck in mostly the same positions the CDU has.
At the moment, I'm watching the book presentation of Platzeck, Steinbrück and Steinmeier (the "Schröder reforms wing"). More here.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 11:43:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (none / 1)

Can they then blow up the coalition and win?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 12:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 4)

After Schröder had to call for new elections in 2005, it wouldn't go down well in the public if the SPD is seen as deliberately giving up the government AGAIN. It would have to be about a very popular and divisive issue where the SPD can get more support for its side AND they'd have to put the blame on Merkel somehow. Not exactly promising either.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 02:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 2)

Willy Brandt Haus, right? I considered going there as well, but didn't. What was the presentation like, any lively debate?

There are, I think, plenty of issues on which the SPD can define itself separately from the CDU, transparantly fight a battle and come to a decent compromise. The minimum wage issue was one where I think they did it quite successfully. They should seek out further issues, like, say, free university tuition.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 08:50:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 4)

The debate was quite interesting. Hans-Jochen Vogel was presenting the book and critizised some things about the concept "vorsorgender Sozialstaat". Müntefering and Nahles were there, Beck was mentioned a lot, all in all it made me a little more hopeful about "defining the party separately".

I wasn't there, btw, I watched it on Phoenix. I'm not in Berlin and no SPD member.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 09:29:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (4.00 / 2)

Thanks.

I don't think you had to be a SPD member to get in, though maybe you'd have to register in advance. I'm not SPD either (don't even know if I could be as a foreigner, and anyway, I'm more sympathetic towards the greens).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 09:39:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? ( (none / 1)

more sympathetic towards the greens
Yup, me too.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Wed Sep 5th, 2007 at 01:00:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gruss Got (none / 1)

Ein teil meine hertzen leigt immer in Berlin. Fiel gluck an diese whale.
I know, it's been ten years and I do forget my German but I do wish these special people the best in their selection for the future, something I can't say for my own "homeland".

by Lasthorseman on Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 at 10:44:34 PM EST

No German Idol: who can beat Merkel in 2009? (with poll) | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Who should run against Merkel?

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