The European Tribune is a forum for thoughtful dialogue of European and international issues. You are invited to post comments and your own articles.
Please REGISTER to post.
I realise there hasn't been any rock content in the diary; part of the work with the diaries is hunting out the lesser-heard pieces. But coming up to date, at least bit, here's a famous melody. I like it in this context because it starts with a melody on the guitar, which is followed by a different melody on the voice.
Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
Harmony is not two tones sounded simultaneously. There are two distinct problems with this definition. First, the number of tones -- you really do need three, at least if you're talking about functional harmony. You need that third tone to give you your triad, which as we all learned in music theory is the basis of functional harmony. In context, two tones can suffice but you have to have the right context. Second, an arpeggio is not sounded simultaneously but you get your harmony anyway.
Two melodies playing together do not necessarily make counterpoint -- they will (if they are nonparallel melodies) make some form of polyphony, though.
Bach did not employ five melodies simultaneously, but he did write the occasional five-voice fugue. There is the quodlibet but that's only four melodies. :-)
I will mercifully stop now. I hope the following negates any pain I may have caused:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fmoEaiV0b3A&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fmoEaiV0b3A&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
here's the score in PDF for anyone who wants to follow along: http://www.icking-music-archive.org/scores/g.gabrieli/gabcan2part.pdf
Melody - foreground, in the sense of being the most obvious line that people hear and remember
Harmony - background and foundation AND/OR added colour around the melody
Counterpoint - means different things depending on which century you're in. But truly independent lines are rare. A lot of so-called counterpoint is really harmonic colour with pretensions to independence or - in polyphonic music - the same line chopped up, delayed and repeated so it plays against itself.
It's very, very hard to think of music which is pure harmony with no sense of melody at all. In classical music you often get boilerplate writing at cadences where the melody disappears and you get your II-V-I without much else happening. But elsewhere there's usually a strong sense of a melodic line, even when the focus is moving between the voices.
Backing vocals, keyboards, bass and guitar - harmony, counterpoint or just part of the furniture?
Maybe to the extent one wants or needs to take the music apart for specific purposes, certain tonal effects (over time) can and are given specific names--music theory is the study of all that. It depends what the focus is maybe--as you say. Also, I suppose that overtones (as I understand them--I mean, those extra tones that appear around the original tone) create an automatic harmonic structure for any series of tones--I was thinking of using a piece with someone whistling, as "the bit you can whistle" is one version ("Bloody racket. Where's the tune? You can't whistle that, can you?") of what the melody is. There's a piece by Neil Finn called "Try Whistling This"--a test of whistling skill?
I can hear:
Bass line (it's there, and it's sort of independent, but it's not that interesting) Keyboard elements - lots of filled out harmonies and a couple of extra lines Backing vocal harmonies - quite complicated Extra guitar lines - one part where it plays a very simple line which is mostly a held note and some embellishments And more...
Most of this is already happening before the bass and main drums come in at around 18s, and you could easily spend some time playing that section over and picking apart everything that's on the track.
There's a surprising amount going on - as there is in a lot of chart music.
People tend to remember the melody line and aren't consciously aware of the rest, so they'll either not hear it at all or hear it as filler. But listening to it can be - interesting.
Also interesting that you don't like the beat. Caroline Corr often seems to drag the snare beat slightly and make it late. It's probably my least favourite thing about the band.
Meanwhile ¨Try whistling this¨ is a bit of a cheat. I'd hear it as:
Voice melody Piano countermelody (which sometimes disappears) Piano harmony and colour around the countermelody Occasional embellishments and decorations
You couldn't whistle it because a lot of the movement and interest is in the countermelody, hidden under the sung part which is simpler and not as interesting - as you can hear when he stops singing.
It's not something I can explain though--but it could have something to do with lateness--or even just thumping the beat on the beat, not much movement around it. I'd compare it to the drummer playing Shoreline 7/4 in the Part III diary, who--for my ears--gave that lovely rush--and I have to say, watching the jazz trios and quartets, the sounds of those kits in the late fifties early sixties--
But a triple-gah because that's a discussion for the other diary! All the various elements come together in my head, start with one thread, keep following and soon enough I jump threads somehow--
Any theories about that four beat? Listening to that piece again, there's a lot of musical ability being squashed by that...clumpiness. Thing is, when other pop songs do muck about with the internals I still get that overall sense of clump rather than dance. (While I've been noticing that dance tracks which I presume--it's been a while--are specifically designed for audiences that dance go for the two--oom pah oom pah. Boom chit boom chit, or even just the boom boom, boom boom. Do fiendish wizards have theories about these four beats that they apply because in order to do X (sell product, I suppose)...for some reason the clumpy-four....turns minds to thoughts of consumption?
Or maybe it's just me ~:) Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
a good accompanist can infer and elicit melody by framing it with intelligent harmony. when that happens the blend is perfect and the melody appears out of the harmony like a mushroom out of the loam.
melodies can be harmonised ad infinitum, reverse doesn't work so well! (unless you go all schoenberg! more maths than music, tho' many will disagree!)
symbolically melody is the triumph of the individual, harmony is the magic of cluster to invite melody out to play, a field for her to run, a skyscape to fly.
melody alone has tension and release with silence...when there is harmony there is conversation, banter, innuendo, humour.
it's very hard to think of music that has no rhythm.
melody and percussion started the ball rolling, harmony took much longer to evolve, and it's still evolving.
polyrhythm is to beat as harmony is to melody! thickens up the custard, spices up the soup.
rambles from the latenight zone... 'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
Me no nothing? Impossible!
Hey, did you see Stravinsky at the end, wonderful conducting (well, I say that but I didn't have to play along--it looks wonderful to me) and such excellent playing by the orchestra and Stravinsky uses the audience applause to...add to his applause for their excellent playing--
greg, do you fancy writing (or helping to write?--or hey, I can string pieces together, the words are to stop it just being video-video-video - I like the idea of describing the theme in some way--but--yes!--terms have technical meanings well-defined, and you clearly know the technical aspects at levels well beyond--...ach...music video diary: how to improve the structure?)...but I'm also thinking that this project is failing to engage the ET readership--all suggestions welcome!
(I was thinking 'timbre' would be the next theme--but I'm not---ach!)
What an excellent comment! Now I must listen to the Gabrieli piece again--while following along with the score (Rachmaninov playing Rachmaninov! Following the score was....staring at a work of art as the work of art was played...greg, I'm failing miserably to say--thanks for the comment! Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
Melody and harmony are abstractions. The books on harmony by Heinrich Schenker and Arnold Schoenberg are probably too technical for most people but they shouldn't deter an intrepid explorer like yourself.
I personally don't like Stravinsky's conducting that much (I only watched a little bit). He elicits a performance that is a little too emotionally sterile for me. But Stravinsky is one of my favorite composers.
And now for something completely different: a sung melody with supporting harmony played on piano (I'm only referring to the first song in this clip -- this was by far the best performance I could find on YouTube):
M83 - In The Cold I'm Standing - 04:05
(BTW, what time signature is this?) *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Muse - Map Of The Problematique - 04:15
(I can't decide if this is 4/4 or something more complex in the first two minutes) *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Back to the Muse track, the four beat kicks in clear at 0:40 when the snare starts hitting the three--One two THREE four One two THREE four--
Then the singer starts up (reminds me of Bono!)--
And then a great drum flourish at 2:11--I wonder what it would sound like if they'd kept that rhythm through the song--and dropped the drums while he was singing, just used the opening keyboard riff...heh!
Towards the end the drummer starts whacking a cymbal on the first beat: CRASH and boom and WHACK and boom--
ABout 3:56 he starts doing things with his hi-hat--but there's that snare on three (I think I'm picky about snares on three!--hard to do without slowing...something....heh....I'd call that snare on three the 'commercial' aspect of the song's sound world.)
And then the drummer gets to whack out to the end!
(On a re-listen, the drumbeat before the snare starts playing reminds me of Killing Joke)
Here's an example of the way I like a four beat: Lots going on with the bass drum, syncopation, that kinda thing, and a speedy snare on the three--or maybe I just got it all wrong!
Iggy Pop - I'm Bored (2:43)--four four kicks in at 0:16
Another band it reminded me of, though on a re-listen the connection is the guitar sound and it may just be in my head--is My Bloody Valentine.
First up, To Here Knows When (4:43), which is a four beat but as the song progresses the beats get drowned in washes of guitar.
And then, as a contrast, from their earlier days, Kiss (3:51) I think the intro count goes:
5 3 4 5 3 5 5 3 6 5 3 8
(could be wrong!)
-----------
On a technical note, are you having any problems with videos stopping then starting then stopping then starting? The same thing happens over at youtube--some videos run okay, but others keep stopping/starting(and it seems to be at all different times of day and night.) Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
The belief by the early church in the perfectibility of the universe led to rules that mostly focused on small integers and simple geometric shapes.
The most absurd instance was the insistence that the earth was the center of the universe and the the orbits of the planets were circles, but something similar happened in music.
By using simple ratios one can get close to the common western scale. The easiest way to demonstrate this oneself is to pluck a stretched string and then stop it length at various points. Stopping at the middle produces an octave (1;2), 3:2 produces a fifth, etc.
The problem is that when one divides the scale into 12 steps the ratios are slightly off. Music theorists struggled with the discrepancy for several hundred years and rather than give into the actual mathematics of the situation they invented all sorts of fudges. These are called "temperaments", and the most famous is the one used by JS Bach in his "Well Tempered Clavier". The correct mathematical solution to dividing an octave into 12 equal parts is that each step's frequency has a ratio to the next of the 12th root of 2 - an irrational number (1.059...).
Since this is an irrational number the intervals that should sound harmonious such as the fifth and third are actually discordant and beat. Western ears no longer notice this, but many other cultures use different musical step sizes and/or have other than 12 notes to the scale.
There are many sites where one can hear examples of this, sometimes the differences are subtle and require retraining one's ears, sometimes (as in Indian and other Asian music) the differences are quite noticeable. Even in western culture jazz and blues musicians don't stick to the standard pitches, but "bend" the notes.
Over the years I've tried different tunings on my harpsichord, some can really throw pieces into a different light. The key that a piece was written in used to make a big difference when instruments didn't used equal note steps, now it is mostly just nostalgia when someone choses a key for a piece. Policies not Politics ---- Daily Landscape
"How would you like it?" said the piano tuner.
"A bit sharp at the top and a bit flat at the bottom."
Any pieces you could offer us so we can hear an example or two?
btw, in case anyone doesn't know how to post a video (just in case!):
((*youtube fFuyvbK_6Cw))
Take away the asterisk (don't leave a gap)
and you get this (4:22):
---------------
And now a silly story: the same friend who has his piano tuned sharp at the top and flat at the bottom was talking about the microtonal keyboard:
"It reproduces," he said, "almost exactly the sound of an out-of-tune piano."
Of course, it depends what you play!
--------------
Hey, thanks for the comment!
This is supposed to compensate for how the ear hears as well as for the fact that piano strings, being thick, are not true harmonic resonators, but tend to have harmonics which are off pitch. It's why good piano tuners don't use electronic devices when tuning.
On the other hand I do use one on my harpsichord because all the octaves are true and one has to adjust one octave and them make all the others match. Tuning octaves is easy, you just listen for a lack of beats. Modern electronic tuners even show how far off pitch a note is so it is easy to set other temperaments if one knows the deviation from equal in cents (hundredths of a note).
There is a just intonation group in NYC which tries to play everything in pure tuning. During the annual Bach festival on local station WKCR they invite the director on for a segment to illustrate how tuning affects the sound. Now the station is online as well so people can hear it everywhere. The festival starts up a few days before Christmas each year and runs for 7-10 days. Policies not Politics ---- Daily Landscape
--I'm intrigued now by perfect pitch; it reminds me of my thing about the three of the four beat--or whatever it is--the 'pap' beat, somehow it lacks ooomph. The next track has been ooomphed. They put in the drum beat I don't like--at 1:30, but only for a little while, quite a variety in there. It's got that perfect pitch thing, they tune the synths to the exact co-ordinates, beyond the capacity of the human ear to discern the shades, and then overlay with what you like!
And then--heh...I thought it was humorous, that huge ant with the words 'The Reality of Destruction'--but who could notice when there's orgasms--or was it just the one, or their mate into a mic--trying to make a serious point about female sexuality and its constrictions in the new a--destroy those barriers, the giant X-Ray of an ant is here--reality--plus an orgasm or even two! Or three!
Now--cough cough!
anything even slightly out of tune makes me irritable and angry.
A bloke once said to me, "Tom Waits? Ugh! I can't stand him. I mean, I like the music--but that voice!"
~:7o (:
Now our sound worlds can start matching up--hey, how about a video with a melody that's sung or played such that your ears are singing ahhhhhhh! I am a HUGE FAN of beautiful notes hit beautifully. And I'm always happy to hear someone else's choices! Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
Also known as Melodius Thunk:
Your comments about Les resonate with my experience. I remember having a conversation with a pianist about 15 years ago, drunkenly discussing musicians, when he came out with the statement that Les Dawson had to be a severely talented pianist, to be able to play things wrong enough to set your nerves on end, but still be recognisable as the tune they were failing to be. Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
well it beats elephant gerald! 'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
Monk also used lots of seconds, ninths and other intervals that were "forbidden" by the rules of classical harmony.
I find it interesting that the biggest development of the past 30 or so years has been a transition to rhythm as the primary musical language rather than melody. In the classical world this began with Terry Reilly, Steve Reich, Glass, etc. In the pop world it has mostly been seen in the rise of rap and its spinoffs which is really a form of rhythmic declamation (like Greek theater).
Modern crossover groups (at least in the NYC area) seem to focus on short phrases which get repeated using changes of rhythm or meter.
I heard a traditional lieder recital yesterday on the radio and I can't imagine the younger generation sitting still for such an abstract form of music these days. Policies not Politics ---- Daily Landscape
given that Firefox has a problem with the old version of the embed code use by the youtube macro for the European Tribune.
Is it just a scoop/ET problem? Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
... now, I've never seen the freeze anywhere else that I embed videos, and those would be places where I copy and paste the embed code from YouTube rather than use a scoop macro ... but that could just be that I never happened to have used one of the videos that freeze. I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 26 3 comments
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 31
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 22 3 comments
by Cat - Jan 25 55 comments
by Oui - Jan 9 21 comments
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 13 28 comments
by gmoke - Jan 20
by Oui - Jan 15 91 comments
by Oui - Feb 13 comments
by gmoke - Jan 29
by Oui - Jan 2731 comments
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 263 comments
by Cat - Jan 2555 comments
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 223 comments
by Oui - Jan 2110 comments
by Oui - Jan 21
by Oui - Jan 20
by Oui - Jan 1841 comments
by Oui - Jan 1591 comments
by Oui - Jan 144 comments
by Frank Schnittger - Jan 1328 comments
by Oui - Jan 1221 comments
by Oui - Jan 1120 comments
by Oui - Jan 1034 comments
by Oui - Jan 921 comments
by NBBooks - Jan 810 comments