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Compare this to a system where animal production is extensive (using grasslands and marginal lands) and less arable is used for "intensifying" inputs like maize and soy. There'd be a lot less pollution, and better-quality products. There'd also be a lot less in terms of quantity, and the price would be higher. Personally, that's the way I think things should go. Eating less, but better-quality and more expensive, animal products is fine by me, it's what I do.
However, the mass marketing of "cheap" factory-farm products has an appeal that (though it is easy to argue against) is hard to persuade against. In almost all human cultures, eating meat has a festive aspect, and when people can get meat cheaply they go for it. Eating vegetables and cereals appears humdrum by comparison and above all confers no prestige: you're "eating spaghetti" (or rice, or bread, or potatoes) meaning you're too poor to do better. Having meat on the table daily means you're doing well. The mythology is more important than the reality (of the nutritional quality of the intake, of the environmental problems caused).
So there's rising demand for meat in emerging economies where urban populations are seeing average incomes rise. And, to accompany this, the growth of environment-unconscious factory farming. And who are we in the developed world, who invented the intensive production techniques used and have had more than our fair share of glutting on meat, to stop them?
We might at least change our own consumption and production to show that things can be done differently, but we're still a long way from that. Intensivist-productivist methods are in fact gaining ground, with the introduction of GM crops in particular -- backed by the argument that we have to "feed the world". (Read: feed intensive animal production).
What may seem obvious to us doesn't appear so to the vast majority, and the commercial forces are formidable. Things don't look too hopeful.
My meat or fish portions tend to be very small - but sort of indespensible - except for sushi where a slab of fresh caught salmon tends to disappear rather quickly.
I also buy a lot of pulses from the Indian shops in Helsinki.
I had a client making soy chunks a couple of year ago and tested a lot of different recipes using their product. But I found the texture really hard to handle. I still occasionally test new recipes but I've ever been happy enough to offer soy chunks to my guests.
Milk I'd find hard to be without. The perfect cup of tea, for me, needs a splash of milk. Other that use that I maybe use 500 ml max a week of dairy products in sauces etc.
I guess I could really cut down on meat, but I don't regard myself as a major offender. You can't be me, I'm taken
wow. Let's see - about 2 l. of milk, 250-300 ml of cream, 350g. of butter and 1.5 kg of cheese.
Meatwise - 1-1.5 kg, including seafood.
Meatwise about the same for me, but not counting guests.
BTW I use 7% fat cream and low fat yoghurts, buttermilk and Quark - whatever that mght be in English. You can't be me, I'm taken
btw quark - roughly cottage cheese.
Virgin rape oil is very tasty! You can't be me, I'm taken
Did you not know this is the Finnish motto? You can't be me, I'm taken
soy based cream sauces? ugh.
I like to use a lot of yoghurt in marinades and in mongol cooking (long and slow and sealed) You can't be me, I'm taken
I got an old Danish iron casserole at the flea market, that has a perfect seal due to the weight of the lid. And though I cook on ceramic, it is easy to get the mongol pot to simmer minimally. It is an excellent type of coooking for those chefs whose sense of time may become distorted. You can't be me, I'm taken
Rice milk is the perfect substitute for cereals. Unfortunately I've never seen a rice cream. (Do they even exist?)
I buy organic milk for tea, and very occasionally organic cream. But I think dairy production is a relatively minor distraction from intensive meat farming.
If you have a dead cow someone might as well eat it. It's when you have millions of dead cows being farmed, killed, cut up, processed and shipped around the world that you have to start asking questions about efficiency.
Modern dairy farming is very intensive and polluting. (It also feeds the meat market, most of the cheaper supermarket cuts being dairy cow or heifer).
Yet I'm not suggesting people should boycott cows' milk and derived products (unless for personal health reasons). What is objectionable is the amount of marketing/advertising/packaging/shelf space devoted to small volumes of low-quality milk turned into various yoghurts and other more or less fermented products, creamy desserts, and intestinal stimulants, sold at high prices : industrial dairy production feeding straight into a marketing-based food industry sector. I don't know what the ratio of raw material to abusively "manufactured" added value (the marketing, ads, packaging, merchandising) in the cost price is, but the continuous pressure to bring down the price paid to the dairy farmer leads directly to increased intensification and the debasement of the product. Better-quality producers and products, such as traditional cheeses, are increasingly marginalised (even in France).
But, as with meat, the marketing works. It's not easy to see how to turn the situation round.
One thing about which I've never been sure, though, is the practicality/viability of organic/non-intensive agriculture without animals as part of the mix? In crop rotation, haven't the nitrogen-fixers traditionally been used as animal food?
Generally speaking, a diverse farm operation, including animals, produces more food value/acre than a comparable specialized farm. That's because a diversified farm has more than one use for a particular piece of land, e.g., using the orchard for sheep grazing (grass & windfalls) and hay production.
To answer your question, yes. Typical nitrogen fixers are clover or alfalfa. Typically they are planted with grass to provide pasture/hay. The animals graze the pasture and their dropping help fertilizer the ground. An additional benefit to using the ground this way is that it helps to break disease and pest cycles. She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
For our local food co-op, I deal with two organic farmers. One provides us with wheat flour, rapeseed and sunflower oil: he has beef cattle to feed manure into the system. His neighbours don't have animals, and put chick peas and lentils (that we buy from them) into the crop rotation.
:-) She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Livestock use approximately 50% of all water consumption in the US. Livestock produce twenty times the excrement as the human population of the US. This increases the nitrate/nitrit water pollution. Extensive water use for livestock is pushing us closer t a clean water shortage. It requires 60-100 times more water to produce beef a pound of beef than a pound of wheat.
Livestock requires excessive water usage because the land needed to grow grain for livestock takes up 80% of the grain produced, and water is needed for the animals. When one considers the water needed for this extra grain and for the care of livestock, a flesh-food diet creates the need for 4500 gallons per day per meat-eater as compared to 300 gallons peer day for a vegan. A vegan saves approximately 1'500'000 gallons per year compared to a flesh- and diary eater.
We simply cannot escape the fact that raising animals for meat and diary has a disastrous effect on our ecological system. Us livestock regularely eat enough grain and soy to feed the US population five times over.
The total world livestock regularly eat about twice the calories as the human world population.
By cycling our plant protein through the beef, the conversion of beef protein is between one-tenth and one-twentieth of the plant protein yield. This is a 100% loss of complex carbohydrates and a 95% loss of calories, and calorie resources when so many people in this world suffer from malnutrition.
So, I buy one piece of meat (or fish) at the market, most weeks.
But... -at the company cantine, you can't find any decent vegetarian dish most days. I almost invariably have it when there is, but it's rare. And just eating the side vegetables is not very appealing, they are not cooked in order to be on their own. I think it's a shame that it's not more frequent. -you pretty much cannot be invited and not have meat.
As a result, I still eat more meat than I would if it were culturally more common. And that even though I aim to have rarer but better meat products... So there's a long way to go before it's a general thing.
While waiting for that, I'll try to make do with things that don't really require an extra animal -parts that don't sell all that much. For example, "boudin noir", made with blood, well, I'm sure in most cases there is more available than can be sold, so it does not really involve extra breeding.
But there remains the problem of milk. There really is no easy way out of that. But there is a lot of room for improvement. To start with, a lot of the food is simply thrown away in our countries. That surely can be helped. As can over-consumption. Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
He cited a stat that somethng like 30% of the US corn crop was being diverted to biofuels, and also that the majority of south american arable land had been given over to soybean production for raising livestock.
Meat is murder. Well, meat in excess anyway. I don't think one needs more than a serving or two of it a week for good health even if you are an athlete.
But so too is biofuel production. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
I understand not liking it. But there it is. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
I don't think one needs more than a serving or two of it a week for good health
I believe you do not need meat at all to stay healthy and is often even tastier. Balanced vegetarian food provides everything the body needs. Though I have no problem with people eating meat once or twice a week. That would already be a improvement healthwise for most people. Most people today eat more meat and proteins than the body can metabolise and discharge - thus in my opinion the reason for many chronic health problems.
Fran:
I believe you do not need meat at all to stay healthy and is often even tastier. Balanced vegetarian food provides everything the body needs.
Should read: I believe you do not need meat at all to stay healthy. Balanced vegetarian food provides everything the body needs and is often even tastier.
Actually, I'm sure if I put some effort into it I could find a bunch of local markets to go to on weekends for produce... When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
But you could have used the resources to make the bike to do something useful for someone starving in some part of the world. QED.
Otherwise, I utterly fail to see your point. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
It's not a healthy diet, really, especially the nasty cholesterol-laden protein you get from industrial-raised livestock, research on which is in nascent stages.
Linda McCartney's race team was quite competitive on an all vegetarian diet, the jury's out on what sorts of proteins are the best; but either way, the average man in western europe certainly doesn't need more than 200 grams of protein or so per day taking as average a 180cm man at 75kg as roughly average. Add to this a supplement for recovery in the case of athletes (which most people I know, including me, take in combination with a complex carb base mixed with whey solids, so not exactly meat) and you are about right for diet needs.
And not all of that protein need come from meat sources.
I'm not saying being a vegetarian makes you a saint, and for the record i'm not a vegetarian. But McBouffe is not only bad for you, it is unsustainable. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
The last is just that - for those of us who love the taste of meat and dairy it's a pointless exercize.
Health - not really my main concern, and just like you can put together a veggie diet that is healthy, you can do the same for a non-veggie one.
environment - like so much else, both animal and non-animal products can be produced in a more or less environmentally friendly way.
sustainability - that's the big one. But no, I don't feel particularly guilty.
My philosophy is to make those sustainability/environmental choices which are cause less inconvenience to me or, ideally, which I actually prefer, rather than make huge sacrifices (in the subjective sense). So I have no car, I live in a densely packed city, relying on walking and mass transit exclusively, and I tend to eat local organic stuff to the extent I can afford to. And I suspect that's what most of us do.
I don't quite understand the economics. Why don't we see a full range of produce? Supply and demand, I guess. You can't be me, I'm taken
Right behind the counter is Lundia shelving which holds all the things I need when I am cooking (hardware/software) - within arm's reach. Between the counter and the back shelves is quite narrow - maybe 7500 mm. That is where I hold court, and to where only my closest friends dare to invade ;-) (although bartenders seem to instinctively gravitate there - one told me that he feels safer behind the counter) You can't be me, I'm taken
Like our grandparents... The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
It was the Welsh (Not very far from InWales place) who worked out how to can Beer. Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
I never did understand the bottle thing... The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
Hence a "farmers' market" doesn't really apply as a term here. Farmers can have market stalls in with the retailers.
There are many ways to cut the pear in two.
Perhaps, the best way is to work towards making the choices you and I are able to make more available to those who are not necessarily so able? The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
I guaranteed I'd break it though. I break the composite ones, roughly one a year. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
But Flavio makes me see things differently: Bamboo is a resource of immense potential. And it is strong too. What makes it possible to build bicycles from it is that it is stronger than steel when strained in the longitudinal direction, 17% to be exact.
prefer aluminum though. twitchier, more responsive, crisper cornering, feel the road better, and also these days cheaper than, or at least comparable to, a good steel frame. plus, recyclable. I just recycled one a month ago.
steel is a good ride too, softer, more forgiving on the back (fortunately mine's good anyhow) but it's usually too heavy to race on. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
you are the media you consume.
Looked more like it, anyway. The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
I must add, in fairness, that they're the same people who sing I am cow. You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
Eating "mostly plants" is a lot easier when they taste good. I just started to eat more vegetables, and Mark Bittman's new cookbook helps me do that.
Even tofu.
What about EU norms for taste !?! Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
Once we're all eating polystyrene and cotton wool with a side of vitamin tablets they'll be happy.
Now get that into a supermarket or regulation...
The book is a short, well written argument against the kind of manufactured food that the US is now sending around the world. It's full of footnotes and experts, but the writing is accessible and meant for a general audience.
He gives a little history lesson, covering the last 100 years or so. "Nutritionism" is how the manufacturing process makes its way into your food. Scientists do studies that identify specific nutrients and vitamins that are healthy. That gives agri-business a target to efficiently chase, to the exclusion of all the other benefits of whole food that didn't fit into the study.
He comments that if anything in the store is touting health benefits on it's package, you shouldn't buy it. The reason being that in order to get the desired level of nutrients, as given by the scientific studies, the food is stripped of all the other nutritional benefits during it's processing.
He points the finger at business, gov, and science for our current problems. In my mind business is the main culprit for bribing/corrupting the other two, though the government and scientific communities aren't blameless.
Whenever I try to summarize a book I like, I always want to add a statement at the end. Something like "Please don't let my sloppy writing or inelegant arguments get in the way of you looking at this book."
Scientists do studies that identify specific nutrients and vitamins that are healthy. That gives agri-business a target to efficiently chase, to the exclusion of all the other benefits of whole food that didn't fit into the study.
If only that, but I'm afraid the order is reversed ; the industry asks for "this food is healthy" studies to use as marketing. See Popeye produced by the Spinach industry, or the "discovery" that wine is healthy... Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
"Please don't let my sloppy writing or inelegant arguments get in the way of you looking at this book."
People here in the US have long forgotten that "a chicken in every pot" meant at least a chicken suitable for stew, and once a week, not meat every day. I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
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