Merkel in (finally...)

by whataboutbob Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 04:04:18 AM EST

Monday update - I have just heard on the radio that Merkel was going to be the Chancellor, that SDP and CDU agreed on it this morning. More to come... The BBC says the same, with little more detail.

Sunday UPDATE Apparently this article jumped the gun...here is a quote from Swissinfo today "We won't know until midday tomorrow whether we can move to full coalition talks," Muentefering said at a trades union event in Hanover, adding that there would be "nothing new" on Sunday." So maybe Monday night...

From the Financial Times (via Fran): Merkel to become Chancellor after deal with SPD

The Christian Democrat leader Angela Merkel is set to replace Gerhard Schröder as Germany's next chancellor, in a political deal that will see the departure of Mr Schröder from the political stage, senior members of the ruling Social Democrats have told the Financial Times.
Ms Merkel's expected victory in the battle for the chancellorship is likely to be announced on Monday, following a meeting tomorrow evening in Berlin between Mr Schröder and Ms Merkel. The two leaders met on Thursday evening for four hours to agree the framework of a SPD-CDU grand coalition, but refused yesterday to disclose details. The talks also included the SPD leader Franz Müntefering, and Edmund Stoiber, Bavarian premier.
Officials close to Mr Schröder said he would not become vice chancellor and foreign minister in the coalition, in spite of pressure from within the SPD for him do so. "The chancellor has done what was necessary, to ensure the SPD is on an equal footing with the CDU in the coalition," one official said.
The election yielded a hung parliament but left the CDU holding four more seats than the SPD. Ms Merkel promptly claimed the chancellorship but Mr Schröder, citing his party's unexpectedly strong performance, refused to stand aside.

If anyone can fill us in on the details of this, please do...what is the "deal"?

Merkel in (finally...) | 41 comments (41 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Merkel in? (none / 1)

There is no deal yet and hence no details. We are the biggest party and claim the chancellory. The CDU/CSU has lost the elections and is under pressure within their parliamentary party group from the left wing, which rightly claims that their defeat was due to their party's negligence to cater to the interests of the working classes.

So, whatever will happen on Monday - we have already won big time.

Merkel's neoliberal course was soundly defeated. The electorate voted 53% for parties left of the centre. The economic neo-liberal Vodoo hooligans got no majority.

So, here's the deal: We have now all the time we want to practice some Zen exercises on the conservatives. Schröder already celebrated the bamboo stick - trick on the conservative leadership on election night. He literally hit them between their shoulder blades. And very hard.

It heightened their awareness.

I guess that we will have to perform some more Zen tricks. Or how about teaching them the Christian concept of "humility" and "devoutness" towards the working people?

Another exercise theme will be: Regain your mental capacities and renounce on indulging in intellectual slobbiness. Abjure from using Anglo-Saxon economic buzzwords to deceive the public!

In short: We will positively torture them for some time yet. Not because it is fun. (Okay, I admit there is some pleasure involved in it.)

More importantly:

It is necessary to shift the balance of power towards the left. Which is what the electorate wanted.

At that point Merkel can become chancelloress under our watchfull eye.

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Sat Oct 8th, 2005 at 05:55:53 PM EST

Re: Merkel in? (4.00 / 2)

Merkel's neoliberal course was soundly defeated. The electorate voted 53% for parties left of the centre. The economic neo-liberal Vodoo hooligans got no majority.

Not so clear. The left (SPD, Greens, PDS) won exactly the same percentage of the vote as last time. The SPD ran on a left turn in rhetoric yet simultaneously a defense of their neo-liberalism lite record. So yes, hardcore neoliberalism was defeated, however, you could just as easily argue that between the 45% going to parties calling for more neoliberalism and another 42% going to incumbents that had pushed for mild neoliberal policies while in office, the voters were giving a massive endorsement to neoliberalism. Of course regardless how one reads the results, any such analysis ignores the fact that voters make their choice for a wide variety of reasons, including both non-economic policy factors, liking specific candidates, and lesser evil calculations.

PS left wing parties won 51% of the vote - SPD 34.2, Greens 8.1, Linke/PDS 8.7.

by MarekNYC on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 12:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No deal yet (4.00 / 4)

But the likely outcome is about halfway what FT reports as fact here. The latest rumors:

That Schroeder will stay on as foreign secretary and vice-chancellor under Merkel. This one was originally floated by SPD types, to much howling and gnashing of teeth among the conservatives, and Schroeder seemed to indicate he wasn't prepared to do it. But now, interestingly enough, it's being talked up by CDU people. More on this below.
That there has been a revolt among SPD MPs from both the left and the moderate wing of the party who refuse to elect Merkel chancellor and demand new elections in case the CDU/CSU doesn't accept Schroeder as chancellor.

As I've said all along, neither party is going to risk a revote unless they can blame it on the other side. At this stage of the game, it's unlikely that Schroeder would be able to blame the need for new elections on Merkel and her people. Infratest Dimap has a new poll out according to which a plurality still prefers Schroeder as chancellor (46%), but views the Christian Democrats as the winner of the election (40%; only 19% see the Social Democrats as victorious) and says Schroeder should step down and make way for Merkel (41%). Yep, that's a contradiction; but the mood seems to be that even as people continue to prefer Schroeder, they feel that Merkel has a "just claim" to the chancellorship.

I personally think that Schroeder would be in an awsome position in the role of foreign secretary and vice chancellor. Not only would this job allow him to constantly upstage Merkel, but it so happens that the foreign secretary has almost always been by far the most popular cabinet member in the German government. Everybody knows that a grand coalition is a temporary compromise in which both partners bite their time, waiting for the perfect opportunity to withdraw from the deal and have new elections to their advantage. With Schroeder as vice chancellor, the SPD would have a structural advantage in this waiting game that would be pretty darn hard to overcome for Merkel. Which is why I'm so surprised that the CDU would put this scenario back on the table - maybe they are more afraid of new elections than the SPD after all. But it's also possible that this is to counter an SPD proposal according to which Schroeder steps aside in favor of one of his own party - most likely, Franz Muentefering. There is pretty much no way in hell the conservatives would swallow that particular pill - why would they allow a new SPD chancellor to gain incumbency? But they may not be able to outright refuse and so need a bargaining chip, and that's where the idea of Schroeder as foreign secretary comes in.

And those rebellious SPD bundestag MPs may become a final wild card in this game. They can ignore any deal the SPD leadership might sign on to, and if there is enough of them, they would derail Merkel's election in parliament as chancellor with the support of the small parties (especially the Greens and the Linke). And that could still present Schroeder with a path to new elections without the public making him responsible for them. But in that case, nobody knows what would happen during those elections. Stay tuned...

If you can't convince them, confuse them. (Harry S. Truman)

by brainwave on Sat Oct 8th, 2005 at 07:30:01 PM EST

Re: No deal yet (none / 0)

Nice analysis. I still think Merkel ends up the loser no matter what. I don't see this coalition of convenience lasting beyond 1 year.

by fls on Sat Oct 8th, 2005 at 07:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No deal yet (none / 0)

Do you know what happens to Schily?

by mimi on Sun Oct 9th, 2005 at 12:02:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Word is he'll stay on (4.00 / 2)

I don't have the foggiest idea whether this has even been decided yet, but rumor seems to have it that Schily and Struck are the two current SPD ministers most likely to stay on. Which in one sense is not surprising (they're both relatively popular and uncontroversial), but in another is (the interior and defense are two departments you'd think the conservatives would want to claim for themselves). (I also don't know how I'd feel about Schily's staying in office if it comes to pass. It's amazing how authoritarian he has become. But then again, there's absolutely no reason to expect his successor would be any better - especially not if the office goes to the CDS/CSU.)

If you can't convince them, confuse them. (Harry S. Truman)

by brainwave on Sun Oct 9th, 2005 at 09:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (4.00 / 2)

well it seems to be merkel after all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4325600.stm

by PeWi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 05:32:40 AM EST

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

From the above linked BBC article:

A senior Social Democrat source quoted by Reuters news agency said the SPD was poised to fill the ministries of foreign affairs, finance, justice and labour under a coalition deal.

That kind of blocks the Conservatives plans, doesnßt it?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 05:45:15 AM EST

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 1)

well but Stoiber is going to join the Government as economics and technology minister. They are also going to get: Defense, Interior, "Customer Protection and Agricultural" (quickly to be renamed I guess), "Education and Research" as well as the "Family, Senior and Youth" offices.

I think the big news is that Stoiber is going to join the Government in Berlin.

by PeWi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 06:17:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Who gets to destroy the environment ministry?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 07:06:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Answering myself - according to SPIEGEL on-line: the SPD.

SPD gets the foreign (fromer defense minister Struck), financial, work, justice, healthcare, transport, environment and foreign aid ministries.

CSU gets the economic (Stoiber) and consumer protection (Seehofer) ministries.

The interior minister will be Schäuble/CDU. Education and family also go to the CDU, and so will the parliament presidency.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 07:15:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

So...it's "I'll trade you Shroeder for 8 ministries", eh? Fair trade?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 07:23:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

May be, but it may also be that the CDU would like to set up the SPD as the fall guy, with their ministers for people to blame for joint 'reform' policies.

(Here I disagree with Ritter, the SPD has a lot of leaders who'd support neoliberalism by stealth - tough, a prime example, former economy and labor minister Clement seems on the way out.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 07:29:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Why the heck will Schroeder not remain in there as Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor. I mean what kind of sense does that make? The SPD shouldn't give up key ministries, like Interior, Foreign and Defense.

I don't get it. With Schroeder gone they don't even have to make a "great coalition", because it doesn't seem to be a great, but a rather small one.

Ok, I think I am going to jump. Politics is just awful EVERYWHERE these days.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:02:41 AM EST

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

How is it possible that as a whole the left votes have increased, but we get a coalition with looks like as if the voters have wanted a government that seems to move to the right?

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

arrgh, so upset I misspell everything. Sorry.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:07:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

What is happening to Schroeder? This man is not the kind who just "retires". Which kind of role does he see for himself? I don't get it.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:16:46 AM EST

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Gosh, we will get a government in Germany that will eat up all the little goodies from the hands of people like Sec. Rumsfeld. Have you ever watched the WH and Rumsfeld on a "charm attack", when Merkel was in the US? Any woman who pretends to not "get" it, shouldn't be leader of German politics.

How can the SPD let go to send their strongest man into the arena as foreign minister? For heavens sake,
the trans-atlantic relations are as shaky as they can be, we don't need someone who continues to egg-dance around the issues and to pussy-foot US foreign policies.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:58:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 1)

I don´t really know....

Enthusiasm for a really close relationship with the Bush administration really took a hit even among the CDU after watching the Iraq disaster for the last few years.

Personally I would expect kind of like more "polite" refusals from Merkel. A change in tone, not in substance. Iraq or any further adventures aren´t popular in Germany. And I don´t think Merkel could get majority support in the German "Bundestag" to become involved in anything new. "New" as in anything more than we´re doing now.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 02:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

I wonder about this, too.

Preliminary coalition talks are conducted by Merkel, Stoiber on one side and Münte, Schröder on the other, so it can't be some party members sidestepping him. Why he would leave no role for himself at all?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 09:00:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

It makes more sense to put whomever the SPD would groom as Schroeder's successor in a prominent position. Schroeder can now look forward to a European Commission appointment in 2009.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 09:23:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

What kind of influence on trans-atlantic EU-US relations would this European Commission appointment have in the future?

US foreign policies right now have no internal opposition within the US. So, I think, it is crucial that the EU has to be an ally but as a stern and honest critic, voicing "opposition" freely and courageously vis a vis the current US foreign policies.

For Germany, I don't see that happening with Merkel as Chancellor.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 09:55:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

What kind of influence on trans-atlantic EU-US relations would this European Commission appointment have in the future?

The same as now. <shrug>
A lot of influence in trade relations. Almost no influence in foreign policy.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 01:31:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

See, that's what I regret. No voice in foreign policies.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 03:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Foreign policy, to the extent that the EU has a common one, falls under the purview of "Mister PESC", currently Javier Solana, and the Commisioner for foreign relations (Benita Ferrero-Waldner). The problem of having two "top" people in this area as well as the 25 ministers of foreign affairs is a huge one.

According to the Wikipedia Javier Sonala is slated to become the new "EU minister of foregn affairs", subsuming the functions of "Mister PESC" and EU commissioner, as soon as the EU is able to reform its treaties. The rejection of the EU constitution is a setback for this, but I guess the conclusion must be that there is no way in hell any other EU politician will get foreign policy away from Solana in the foreseeable future.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 05:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

According to German TV this evening, the SPD almost begged Schroeder to reconsider his stance and join the new government. Obviously he refused?

And I can understand it in a way.
It would be awkward. From first rank into second rank...

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Nato-Generalsekretär Jaap de Hoop Scheffer erklärte, es sei sehr bedeutsam, dass eine Frau die Führung der Bundesrepublik Deutschland übernehme

Why the heck is the gender of our future Chancellor of any importance? What a meaningless comment. Why am I so angry?

Does this coalition represent the will of the voters?

How come that the FDP has already declared they will "gladly" go into opposition to Merkel and that they won't vote "for her"? Weren't they a couple of weeks ago still the "darling" of the CDU?

What are they thinking? I don't mind a great coalition, but I think it's impossible to have Schroeder not as a challenging partner in that coalition. If Merkel and Schroeder both had the nerves they would "fight with each other" on a daily basis and show what both have to offer. But apparently both don't have that stamina.

Where has Merkel proven that she is "up to the job" so far? If she gets the coaltion and becomes Chancellor without a strong coalition partner in the person of Schroeder, her path to the top was way too easy. I can't believe that the Germans wouldn't pay dearly for such a "mistake". We won't have any opposition. What a shame.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:32:51 AM EST

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (4.00 / 3)

Does this coalition represent the will of the voters?

Well, I didn´t look especially for polls in the last few days. From what I´ve heard though, a majority of the voters now support a great coalition. Not enthusiastically but kind of like the "least worst option".

How come that the FDP has already declared they will "gladly" go into opposition to Merkel and that they won't vote "for her"? Weren't they a couple of weeks ago still the "darling" of the CDU?

Simple.
All three small parties (FDP, Greens, "Die Linke") now in opposition hope (and expect) that they´ll gain votes in the next federal election. After all they were the opposition, right? In case the great coalition disappoints voters.

I don't mind a great coalition, but I think it's impossible to have Schroeder not as a challenging partner in that coalition.

That would be difficult IMO.
After being Chancellor now retreating into the second rank. Not only domestically but also in foreign policy affairs. Yesterday he was the Chancellor, today he is the Foreign Minister? Difficult...
Not often - if ever - done in Europe.

I think Migeru is right. It makes more sense for the SPD to groom a new candidate for the next election.
And getting 8 ministries for the SPD including the foreign and finance ministry isn´t a bad deal.

I don´t know anything about her capabilities as Chancellor. And I´m afraid it will be a coalition working on the lowest common denominator.
However, she clawed her way to the top as a woman from Eastern Germany. Without the help of the "old boys network" still alive in Western Germany. That´s quite an accomplishment. :)

We won't have any opposition.

Not true.
Even forgetting the three small parties mentioned above.
First, the majority of the great coalition in the "Bundesrat" isn´t that large. Unpopular laws could still lead to opposition there. And second, I´ve read today that some SPD "Bundestag" representatives are really unhappy about the deal.

In theory, it could still be an "effective" coalition for four years. In reality I expect it to be a "lowest common denominator" coalition. How knows....?

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 02:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Really without the "old boys network"? I thought she had that support in form of previous Chancellor Kohl and all those, who feel they have to be loyal to Kohl, so that they would be loyal to Merkel as well.

I guess that's nonsense then, right? I can't really judge from here in the US. Do the Germans think she is this kind of lonely, ruggedly female in the hiding kind of street fighter, who managed to get to the top without "some fatherly and brotherly bystanders"? Hmm, time to visit Germany to smell "from where the wind is blowing" in these days in Berlin. :-)

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 03:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Merkel: selfmade-woman vs. old-boys-network (4.00 / 2)

I think both of you are partially right.

Merkel got starting help from Kohl (he just called her "Das Mädchen"), who made her environment minister. (A bad one IMO, one acting as the sweep-under-the-rug woman, with enough PR sense to for example come clean of the polluted nuclear waste container scandal.)

But, when about six years ago Kohl's party finance scandal broke, it was her who gained profile by publicly breaking with him. She tossed aside Kohl insiders (and Kohl's estranged onetime consigliere, who also broke with him over the party finance scandal, the now interior-minister-to-be Schäuble) Kohl again gave his support to her only years later.

But after Merkel first tossed the Kohl old-boys-network, the heavywheights in the CDU (not to mention the CSU with its own power aspirants) were not her followers, but the so-called "Anden-Pakt" (Andes Alliance). In the late seventies, on a plane to Pinochet's Chile, a group of CDU yuppies forged this alliance to help and never criticise each other, nor to run for the same post. Now members head at least three Länder - including Hessen, led by the worst of the worst in the CDU, Roland Koch (maybe you remember, I wrote a diary about him, and his hope of becoming CDU leader if the Grand Coalition fails to materialise). The US neocons like them, Koch in particular (who, unlike Merkel, was granted a visit to the White House - and that unscheduled).

Since Merkel is party leader, she battles the Anden-Pakt, lately with some old-boys-network support. The Anden-Pakt guys won a battle back in 2002 when Stoiber was made chancellor candidate in her stead, but Merkel trounced them during a coup attempt a year later. But they are not out at all.

As a final note, I dislike Merkel because I think she stands for nothing. Like Schröder, she is interested in power first, but unlike Schröder, she is less of a populist and big business appeaser ('Genosse der Bosse') than a 'power technologist', shaping her ideology based on what power groups she wants to build her power on.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 06:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel: selfmade-woman vs. old-boys-network (none / 0)

Sigh ... I should know all these things, but I don't. Thanks so much.

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 08:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel: selfmade-woman vs. old-boys-network (none / 0)

You disregarded Rule #1 of internet political discussions:

NEVER apologise!

;-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 04:50:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

Well, I´m not a party member so I can´t be sure. :)

But reading and watching German media in the last few years seems to indicate that "personal" contacts and agreements in party politics are important.

Dodo described the history of Merkel pretty well.
She had Kohl as a "protector" in the 1990s but knew when to break the relationship with him.

That said, she still has the disadvantage of not growing up in Western Germany. And developing the contacts in a still very "West-Germany based" political party.
Simply put, she doesn´t have the "Hausmacht", loyal persons if you like, advancing with her through the ranks of the party.

Despite the election result, this is her only chance to grab the top job in Germany. :)
With "friendly fire" complaining about her bad election results.

I don´t know if I like her political ideas. Still I do have to admire her stubbornness (?) to try to compete for the top job in Germany.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 05:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 1)

Polls this evening as reported by German TV (ZDF):

Great coalition: Yes 51% of all voters
Yes 59% of CDU/CSU voters
Yes 56% of SPD voters

Merkel as Chancellor of a great coalition: Yes 51% of all voters

Schroeder as Chancellor of a great coalition: Yes 35% of all voters

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 02:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

oh, that sounds good then. My gut's feelings tell me that I would/could like and live with Merkel, I like especially her very low key demeanour. I just don't know, if US politicians would even understand her, when she tries to be subtle and "nuanced" about foreign policies vis a vis the US. Most speeches in English of German politicians in the US are awfully boring, lengthy, and full of well meant nuanced that get drowned in translations. There aren't many US politicians who listen to those speeches, that don't fall asleep. If it doesn't sound like Fox News or CNN, people don't listen anymore ... :-)

Who will be German foreign minister then, if Schroeder "takes his time off from the stage?

by mimi on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 03:06:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

See above: probably Struck, the former defense minister, from the conservative wing of the SPD. (I'm not sure I should be unhappy the choice - with Joschka as comparison... - or if alternatives are worse. )

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Oct 10th, 2005 at 05:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

See above.

Right now I don´t know if Merkel and a great coalition is bad/neutral/good for Germany. To many "unknowing things" right now.

Although I do I admit I´m biased. :)
She majored in physics IIRC, I´m an engineer.
I do admit that I´m biased in favor of people who have a scientific background. We tend to be more interested in numbers and results than some other people.

Given the complicated consultations right now, I won´t even try to pretend what might happen.
Although I´m pretty sure that we, Germany, won´t change our foreign policy significantly.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 05:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Merkel in (finally...) (none / 0)

This really is a last time on the Earth...Devil will sleep with an angel just to stay in power. There is nothing but power and money left. No ideals, no principals, no integrity...not to mention love and compassion.
Simply nothing...Why I am not surprise? I don't even grieve any more...And long time ago I passed shock ...I am about to just enjoy it while I can...I am not prophet...just realist (and pessimist) to the bone...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Tue Oct 11th, 2005 at 12:26:50 AM EST

Oh, just stop it! (none / 0)

Simply put, the Social Democrats, the "SPD", are a center-left party. The "CDU/CSU", the "conservatives" are a center-right party in Germany.

Please notice the word "center" in both descriptions.
There is an "overlap" in both parties.
And both of them are looking for the center.

And for our American viewers. :)
Both parties would be considered "wild-eyed left-wing" radicals in current American politics. Just don´t try to put American labels on "our" national parties.
Okay?

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 06:01:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, just stop it! (none / 0)

OK. I am not in America (or American) and my intention was not to annoy you. Centre or not my understanding is that these two parties should have too much of the differences to form coalition...but I may not be right. Maybe just like in case of Reps and Dems in USA or Labor and Lib-Nat conservative coalition here in Australia nowadays there is no almost any difference between "opponents"...They all work for the rich and this way or another middle class is to pay for it. They gave up on poor quite some time ago...I mean left parties...and conservatives would rather exterminate them.
It's just my opinion and not knowing much about German politic I just have a feeling that like everywhere else, in Germany too, people are left with no choice. That's why these "unnatural" coalitions are possible...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 01:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn´t annoy me! :) (none / 0)

I´m just asking that people do recognize the differences between countries and political parties here. :)

I read about right-wing and left-wing parties and people - understandably - tend to project their own experiences on the political situation in another country, too.

In Germany the two big parties are centered in the "middle". And "middle" means the "middle class", the majority of voters. One slightly tending to the right, the other slightly tending to the left. They are of course not similar but they do have an "overlap" in the center.
So a "grand coalition" between them doesn´t feel natural for us Germans but it´s not as unthinkable as in some other countries.

Maybe our donation laws help too. Once your party got a certain amount of votes nationwide (IIRC 0.5%), you are eligible for Federal (election) tax money to pay for your next election (x Euros for every voter you´ve got in the last election). Coupled with free election adds on German TV. Not to mention that you have to publish any donation above a certain "border".

So a large donation by any business would raise eyebrows. It doesn´t have to be illegal but it would be unusual. Right now, we simply don´t have the large donors common in the USA.

And I do admit that I don´t know anything about political parties in Australia. :)

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 03:46:07 PM EST
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