Great post! I'll recommend Alec...though maybe he should start his own kids & politics blog, so us adults don't get in his way...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

My good friend Filip Ferris Nicolaisen used to say to people who don't want to talk about politics: "everything is political: my two-year-old cousing is political".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

When I was 3 years old (barely: 15 days after my birthday) Spain held a referendum on its first democratic Constitution in 39 years. I too wanted to vote, so at the polling place they gave me an empty envelope and the Chair of the polling table took my empty envelope and pretended to put it in the ballot box. We then went home and I had my first ever Champagne toast: "Because we Spaniards have had the chance to vote a Constitution" (my father's wording). My parents still have a picture of me somewhere with a comic book about the Constitution (I want to say also with the tall glass, but the details are all a bit fuzzy, as I don't really remember this stuff but what I was told later).

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

In 1988, three businessmen from Arizona traveled to Costa Rica on a fishing trip. During their visit they learned that the country's voter turnout is typically around 90 percent.

Costa Rica also has no military, so they can spend their money usefully.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

Should kids learn about politics from their parents and share their views or should they make up their own minds?

Wonderful diary, and a great question.

As the parent of a 12-year old son, I have lived through a similar experience to yours. Though my son asked to start his own blog, he is not actively interested in politics right now.

He does pay attention to his father's "political" activites, though, and asks insightful questions about the hows and the whys of the political world. I try to explain the dynamics without bias; though some may say that my particular worldview is a source of bias, I hope it is so in a positive way.

I have always approached the issue by treating politics as an outgrowth of how we treat other people. My approach as a parent has been to do my best to instill a sense of altruism and open-mindedness in my son. My primary goal as a parent is to raise the best human being that I possibly can. So far, so good; my boy is one of the best people that I know.

We are not about political parties, organized religions, or segregationist beliefs (whether they be based on race, economic status, or otherwise).

We are not a religious family, but we discuss many religions and their founding principles. We are, however, a "political" family, insomuch as we try to take an active role in self-governance based upon our love for humanity and a desire for freedom and respect for all.

I suppose that when it comes down to it, everything we try to teach him is based on the idea of treating others (and the world around us) as you would wish to be treated; applying that principle to politcs and/or self-governance trumps all other concepts. All the while, though, I try to convey to my son that he is free to seek his own path and to be true to himself.

I lived in a community with a bunch of adults and kids, and a friend once joked: "will you still love them if they become young republicans?"

Funny enough, one of the kids I was pretty close to eventually joined the Navy, and has been in many years. But <heh, heh> he's a democrat!!

Which all goes to say: ya never know...but love will win out in the end!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

Alec, great post.

I always sticked to the motto, if a kid askes a question it deserves an answer - and by asking it showes that it is interested and probably mature enough to understand the answer if explained in a simple language.

Great job, Alec. :)

I'm not a parent yet, but I believe kids should begin learning the issues at an early age.  I remember being in grade school in 1992, and the principal held a school-wide students' election for president, choosing between Clinton, Perot and Bush.  My father was planning to vote for Clinton (my mother, unfortunately, for Bush, though she's now a fire-breathing Dem), and he had been telling me about the issues -- the deficit, more so than anything, because he's an accountant and that's a critical issue to the bean-counting community -- so, naturally, I voted for Clinton.

In the end, about half of us went for Clinton, about two-fifths for Perots, and the rest for Bush.  Thankfully, the same guy won the real election.

What concerns me more than anything when I listen to conservative voters is that they only care about what are, in the long run, trivial issues -- same-sex marriage, gun rights, etc., as though 200 years from now civilization would be tripping over the fact that Steve and Bob got hitched in Boston or Montpelier in 2003.

Meanwhile, the issues that really do count -- the deficit, the environment, health care, trade, Social Security -- are largely ignored.

So, I say, ask away, Alec.  Educate young people as soon as possible, so that they'll have a firm grasp of the issues when the time comes to vote.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

I have no children, but I still remember being a child, a child without a vote thinking about politics. Replies  from this viewpoint.

Should kids learn about politics from their parents and share their views or should they make up their own minds?

They should learn from their parents but be allowed to make up their own minds. It seems to me your position is contrasting the conservative view of dogmatising children, i.e. "if they do we shouldn't make it easier for them by giving their view as a choice". The problem with that position is that there are a plethora of views that are not conservative - and if you make it a simple choice of two, your son's eventual rejection of your views will automatically lead him to embracing conservativism.

At what age do they understand the issues and are able to make objective decisions?

Between zero and 222 years.

Stupidity and gullibility is not fixed to an age, I think this 'maturity' stuff is a myth we nurture for our own better self-image. (Yes, I am building on my own example...) Moreover, "the age" one eventually manages to achieve objectivity at is different for different issues.

To round this off, I think political education gradually develops with age just like any other, not real 'thresold' to pass.

Are kids who are not engaged in politics more likely to become apathetic voters?

More likely to become non-voters, I think. Or casual voters who vote on non-issues. But no general rule - again from my own experience, I think actual events one lives through politicise persons, and (not from my own experience, but having seen others) events can strongly politicise persons at a later age, too.

Should liberal values be presented as a matter of right or wrong, or should they be presented as a matter of opinion?

I think both :-) A matter of opinion that they have the duty (duty to themselves) to evaluate (and re-evaluate!) as a matter of right or wrong themselves.

Are kids at peace marches and demonstrations participants or props?

Now, on this, I tend to think the latter. But it might be a learning experience for them.

Should Alec have a dKOS account? (I vote no; it would not be fair to other Kossacks)

I vote yes - should be a learning experience.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

Now for some background: having lived under communism, politicisation of course started in kindergarden. The State did it, parents counter-acted. Tough, that didn't yet started me on thinking about issues. I only really felt the conflict of views at around age 8, when I would help out my father as he built our house, listening to news on arrests of Hungarian dissidents in Radio Free Europe, which we'd talk about, then he'd warn me to never ever mention this stuff or even RFE at school.

About a year or two later, I already had some strong leftist/Greenish opinions different from both the State's and my parents'. (Greenish at a time I haven't even heard of actual Greens, who were beyond the Iron Curtain.) So I didn't start at four, but not at 18 either.

Fast forward to the fall of communism and after, I took part in political protests on my own from about age 14, and remember cursing why voting age isn't as low as 16...

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

I'm surprised that no one on this site, nor on dKOS commented on the Chomsky book next to Alec in the photo. Of course I placed it there as a prop and to see if anyone noticed.

Do not feel safe. The poet remembers.
Czeslaw Milosz

This is a good idea, but it's easy to mess a good idea up.

At my niece's school they did this, but instead of having the kids vote with a secret ballot, they had them stand up.  Talk about wrong.  My sister's family lives in a Republicanish area, and so all the kids stand when the have Bush, then its my niece and the only two kids of color standing for Kerry.  

My brother in law hates bush, and the niece and nephew have picked up on this.  President Bush is the reason the factory their dad worked at shut down, and he's hardly ever home since he has to drive an hour each way to work since he was transfered.

Says the niece after the kids election. "I didn't know they have money."  The brother in law told the nephew and niece that Republicans are people with more money than sense(it's a pun, get it?), and now the niece feels that all of her little friends are rich. (They're not, they've got parents mortaged up to their eyeballs to provide vain material possessions instead of focusing on whats important.)

It's all about the context.

I think Alex should have a dkos account, but that the dad should have the password.

Sort of off topic. It's good to see decent progressive people with kids. We have to reproduce if we want to have a future that's worth living. (Says the single man.)

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

Should kids learn about politics from their parents and share their views or should they make up their own minds?

When young, they'll absorb parental values, ideas. When older, they'll start thinking on their own. From time to time, there will be exceptions -- kids who think on their own when quite young.

At what age do they understand the issues and are able to make objective decisions?

Varies greatly with different kids. Someone on Booman posted about their political exploits at age 8. I know of a 6-year-old who asked that instead of BD presents she be given cans of food for the food bank. I worried about the condition of the world when in grade school, so I always believe kids who say they do.

When I was in Jr. High, I got my parents to drive me to an event I read about in a newspaper -- helping to remodel or upgrade a local Black church. My city was about 90% segregated at that time. Mind you -- my parents left me there to work with folks (mixed race group). I helped glue linoleum to a new floor and more. At one point I fell and cut my thigh on a piece of broken glass. Went into the restroom, cut bandaids into a couple butterfly bandages, came back out, went back to work.

Are kids who are not engaged in politics more likely to become apathetic voters?

I have no idea. Certainly as someone diaried recently, anyone who thinks "politics don't affect me" might (?) be less likely to vote. But I dunno.

Should liberal values be presented as a matter of right or wrong, or should they be presented as a matter of opinion?

They ARE a matter of right and wrong.

Now -- Lakoff points out that to a liberal, a certain world-view generates belief in one set of right/wrongs. And a conservative world-view generates belief in a different set of right/wrongs.

I would be danged if I would raise a child and NOT convey my values to that child.

Are kids at peace marches and demonstrations participants or props?

Yes.

Some are props. Some are participants. Some maybe a combination of both.

Should Alec have a dKOS account? (I vote no; it would not be fair to other Kossacks)

Of course he should! What's unfair about it? So far what he's written is more reasonable than many diaries I've seen. No profanity -- a good start. 60,000 people and there's not room for one more?

Seriously, this is very important to me. There are so many ways kids are disenfranchised in our society. Discounted, put down, ignored, feared (as pre-teens and teens). I remember it from when I was a child. Bothered me to no end.

One option -- you could suggest he do only one diary a week, if that makes you feel better. On the other hand, he could do some really neat stuff:
*interview classmates or friends about their political views and report back on them.
*interview people at events or stores about their political beliefs and report back.

I for one would subscribe to his diary.

Alec,

Nice to meet you through your blog.

You said:

We should not use too much oil because it hurts nature. George Bush should not allow drilling oil in Alaska. It would hurt animals and nature. He should tell them to make cars that use less gas.

I agree with you greatly about no (more) drilling in Alaska, specifically in ANWAR - the Artic National Wildlife Refuge. Have you seen the book "Seasons of Life and Land" by Subhankar Banerjee? You could probably get it through the library. (Or on addall.com, which searches many used bookstores.)

He went to ANWAR and spent about a year there photographing it. At first he was very scared of the cold. His photobraphs have been on exhibit where I live, and I saw him speak. Those photos really show how the animals really need huge spaces to survive.

I also agree about the cars with less gas. This is so obvious! I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it. Are you surprised, too?

Do any kids you know talk about it? Or do they just think big cars are "cool"?

Do you ride your bike to help out?

I look forward to your replies.

PS I think you should have your own DailyKos account, if your dad gets to look at what you wrote first, until you're older. Just to be safe.

Chris, my son is 11, a fan of John Stewart, and no fan of George Bush.

I have already explained to him that the GOP already has big plans for him, tender youth though he is -- a generational war for oil and other resources, and a lifelong crusade for worldwide economic and military domination by America.

I let him know that the GOP will want his body in boot camp 7 short years from now, there to learn how to kill total strangers in novel and wholesale ways.

Therefore, I've advised him to enjoy his childhood as much as possible, since he is unlikely to reach his 19th or 20th birthday under GOP rule.  It is regrettable, certainly, but I felt it only fair to let him know that he will probably die bleeding into some desert sand somewhere, in full view of at least one oil well, before he is old enough to order a cold beer.

Well! He has no use for these plans. Says he won't be drafted, won't join up, and won't kill anybody on anyone's orders. Even if some stranger were messing with his keyboard and mouse, he still wouldn't kill 'em.  Just, ya know, slap 'em around some.

I would encourage him to blog, but he spends time occasionally with his uncle, who was a Navy sailor, and so there is a vocabulary issue now. Some of those words he uses in sentences about Bush and Rumsfeld cannot even be spelled on the standard 101-keyboard. They aren't in the dictionary, either. I know what some of them mean, and do not want to know what the others mean.

For the same reason, I do not let him call the White House, either.

Frames exist within larger frames. Draw a larger frame around your opponent's frame; he will appear wrong or insufficient. This is how wizards play.