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Hello from Indian Country

by DrKate Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 09:11:36 AM EST

Greetings to you all, and thank you so much for establishing this site.  I bring you greetings from Native America, where I work with Native Americans on water and natural resource issues in the western U.S.

I'm sure you've all heard of the broken treaties and the continued shabby, contemptuous treatment of the indigenous people of America.  But I'm here to say that a lot of cultures are alive and well, and there are continued struggles that are really crucial:  water rights, gaming, nuclear waste storage and mining, past theft of Indian funds (from resources) worth hundreds of billions...and the U.S. caught with its hand in the "cookie jar".  

This is a time of resurgence of Tribal people with economic and voting power.  In the small "red states", the Tribal vote could make a difference in key elections (New Mexico, South Dakota, Montana, Washington/Oregon, Alaska, Arizona, Minnesota.....)

There should be a natural affinity between US tribes and the environmental movement.  That is not necessarily the case....let that be a tickler to explore the nuances of "alliances" in the US progressive community!

Let me be the first to welcome your interest and insight to these issues, and offer up a couple of websites for your perusal:

http://www.indianz.com
http://www.indiantrust.com/


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I am looking forward to your contributions on this site. I live in NW Washington state and these issues are always in the local news.
by jofo on Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 09:42:57 AM EST
Of course, that must be the issue you hear about most....and, well fish need water.  Such a big issue there...are there others that interest you so I may be responsive?

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Lummi Nation is located right next to the town I live in and they are involved in a major water rights fight with the state of Washington. Here in the Pacific Northwest environmental issues are of concern (perhaps because we still have so much to protect)to almost everyone.
by jofo on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look forward to reading your diaries DrKate. I am an American, and I fully support justice for Native Americans.
by deano (deanoist at gmail dot com) on Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 09:49:34 AM EST
I fully support justice for Native Americans.

Really?  You are willing to give them their land back?  All of it?
You are willing to make restitution for those killed and maimed?

You'll have to indenture you and your children for some considerable time to do this.

And then there is Iraq...

The US is not ever, ever going to pay it's debts internally or externally.
It simply can't.


Truckle The Uncivil - Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

by Truckle on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 12:29:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Chuckling at Truckle,
Are you European?  I ask this question because if the Americans give back our land, then you will have to Assimilate 200+ Million Americans into your culture. Asia and Middle East will have to Assimilate there fair share too.

 It was the Europeans who first assaulted my ancestors lands and then they became Americans, with thier Manifest Destiny, their despoiling of the land, thinking it could be owned.  The Genocide practiced by European and American cultures is without parallel in our history and I can only hope that one day, all cultures will live together honorably.  

Do I want justice for my people, you damn well bet I do.  Do I want the return of my ancestors land, yes, is it realistic, no, but many are beginning to gain some of their former lands back and that is a start.  

The US is a lot of things, both good and bad, but it also a student of European history, so please don't blame all of the misfortune and misery that has been perpetuated upon the Native Populations solely upon the heads of Americans.  Thank you for this opportunity to rant.

"We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves". Chief Seattle 1854

by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 12:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I'm an Aussie...

But I wouldn't expect Europe to have to repatriate.  I don't think the problem is solvable.  It just irks me somewhat that "reconciliation" which is always a compromise but treated like charity is seen as "justice" when it is far from said justice which can never be obtained.

Same for our aborigines here.  Although they do far better with land claims.

But I am of European ancestry so while I accept no blame (I was not there, I have no fault) I do acknowledge a responsibility and obligation.

But neither you nor I are our ancestors and should bear neither blame nor credit for what they have done.  But we must bear burdens and enjoy rights that our ancestors obtained in equal measure.  Most importantly I think we must both learn and teach.  In that way spirit flows most strongly and easily.


Truckle The Uncivil - Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

by Truckle on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 05:03:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Acknowledging responsibility and acting on it is very important and I thank you.  Getting stuck in blame is just that, its an exuse not to act.

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:53:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Giving the land back" may not have the same meaning for Indians as it would for whites.

Most Indians do not think of land as "property," as Europeans do.  They are more concerned with land rights than with the concept of "we own this land."
However, in European (and hence American) thought, land rights go hand in hand with the concept of property.

When Europeans came to America, not all Indians were immediately driven off their land - especially not in the East, where contact continued for about 200 years before the U.S. government embraced its policy of removal and/or extermination.  So there was time for Indians to absorb the huge changes and formulate their own policies which the Europeans initially agreed to.

In my part of America, there was a longstanding agreement between the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) - who were very powerful - and a succession of European colonists (first the Dutch, then the British).  This agreement was called Guswenta (aka the Two Row Wampum) and formed the basis of several treaties with Dutch and British.  Basically it says that "We, the Iroquois, and you, the Europeans, will have an equal, brother-to-brother relationship.  We won't interfere in your affairs, you won't interfere in ours, and we will allow you to share our land."  (The treaty between the Haudenosaunee and the U.S., the Treaty of Canandaigua, does not explicitly invoke Guswenta but clearly that is the spirit behind it.)

This of course has since been violated many many times, but because Guswenta is such an old principle in this part of the country, it could be that the instinct to share and be reasonable still remains.  

In other areas of the U.S., this may be far more difficult to promote and embrace, because U.S. relations with other nations such as Cherokee or the Plains Indians was always based on other, harsher and more destructive policies.

by NYCO on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 05:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly the focus....because protecting watershed function (flowing water, nutrient transport, energy flow,in our "science" language) is just as important spiritually and culturally to the survival of indigenous people across the world.

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Giving the land back" may not have the same meaning for Indians as it would for whites.  Most Indians do not think of land as "property," as Europeans do.  They are more concerned with land rights than with the concept of "we own this land."  

That's how it should be.  How can anyone, a part of a single generation, "own" land...   No one can own land, it can only be held in trust.  

However, in European (and hence American) thought, land rights go hand in hand with the concept of property.

Europe and America are culturally different and in Europe "ownership" always has its limits.  But essentially you are correct - which is what I meant about learning...

Truckle The Uncivil - Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

by Truckle on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 08:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think ghostdancers way addressed your concerns pretty well. As I mentioned in a response to DrKates comment, I think there are some parallels to the Palestinian's Right of Return.

When considering justice of nationhood or territory, I don't think that it should be only framed in the context you had mentioned. Such a belief would lend support to Hammas in Palestine.

I think it makes sense to take a step back and analyse the current situation and then think of a way to create a policy that is best for each party.

The way you frame this as if I don't give up my house I don't fully support the indigenous peoples of America I think is counter-productive. I could easily reply by asking the same of people in Australia, and if Australians don't give up their homes and move then do they not fully support justice for the indigenous peoples of Australia? I believe these questions should be framed in a constructive manner.

by deano (deanoist at gmail dot com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 10:53:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...trying to frame me!

I'm not advocating the return of the USA to its native inhabitants no the migration of the "invaders".

What I was doing was sniping at someone who says he supported "justice".  He doesn't.  Justice would be impossible anyway.

But as long as things are couched in this silly and unreal "justice" there is going to be no asking for forgiveness.

It seems to me that a somewhat better attitude and one that would show understanding and promote more of it would be;

"Restitution for past sins cannot ever be fully made, but I recognise those sins and ask you what I can to to help promote forgiveness for those sins acknowledging that while I am not to blame for those sins I have benefited from them".

That attitude would probably be appreciated by both Native Americans, African Americans and Nisei to boot...

Anyway, it is the one I try to maintain here...

Sorry if I have been pontificating....

Truckle The Uncivil - Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

by Truckle on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 08:54:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Stop...trying to frame me!

What I was doing was sniping at someone who says he supported "justice".  He doesn't.  Justice would be impossible anyway."

?

It's rude for me to "frame" you, but perfectly fine for you to tell me that when I say I support justice I actually do not?

Anyway, I actually don't think you are too far off track with that quote. I don't want to cause any bad blood over semantics, I think we may share a similar perspective in the end.

by deano (deanoist at gmail dot com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 09:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's rude for me to "frame" you, but perfectly fine for you to tell me that when I say I support justice I actually do not?

I can't consider it rude either way.  It's a common ploy in this society.  Framing that is...

And yes it is fine.  There is a good reason and a lot of support for it.  No one wants justice.  The price is to high.  Probably on both sides.

Justice includes making good, restitution and even retribution - and that can't be done.  Too many dead for that.  Too big a bill to pay.

If some plan that is equitable and allows moving into the future in harmony is "developed and implemented" - which is of course highly desirable - that isn't justice it is coming to an accomodation (which may or may not include removing the burden of past sins).

I'm just saying be careful what you wish for, you might get it...
And if I were a "white" man living in the USA, "justice" is not what I would be asking for...

I'll give you (the USA) a good suggestion - turn over all environmental protection agencies and functions to North American Indians.  Make it a "reserved job".  Then you get affirmative action with at least some (I hope) cultural sensitivity.

Agh...  I'm probably just nuts....

Truckle The Uncivil - Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

by Truckle on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 09:43:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Although it can be challenging, no?  For example, many are ticked about Tribal casinos and gambling, but, if one knew the history, the US renegged on its promises to protect Tribal people and has been busy slashing funds, or outright stealing them (see Cobell litigation in Indian trust site above).  So what is a Tribe to do to make some cash to support its Tribal programs, which the US doesn't anymore?

Thanks for your comments.  Let me know what else interests you.

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net

by DrKate on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I agree it is challenging. To me it mirrors some of the same issues the Palestinians face with the Right of Return. I personally do not have a strong background in Native American history, but I tend to think that we need to be pragmatic about our approach and increase funding and support as you had mentioned.

I am all ears on this subject.

by deano (deanoist at gmail dot com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 10:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For example, the US internment of the Japanese during world war II was based on the model of Indian reservations, and how they rounded up the tribes and did that.  The "Seventh Calvary" unit--Custer's ill-famed adventure---still exists as part of the US military structure.  The Palestinian parallels are significant as Sharon tries to box them in on unproductive land.

Oh, wait a minute, then they'll find uranium (like they did with "barren reservations")....and take that land too....

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net

by DrKate on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:58:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hello from the Haudenosaunee heartland.  :-)

I'm a student of U.S.-Iroquois history and current relations.  I was wondering if you had heard of the Onondaga land rights action, where the traditional leadership of the Onondaga Nation is attempting to use their recently filed land claim as leverage for environmental restoration (they are anti-casino).

You can read more in this post at Liberal Street Fighter, and other background here.

Of course, see also the Onondaga Nation's web page.

by NYCO on Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 10:34:28 AM EST
Thanks for the links and great information.  Yes, I have heard of the struggle but not in this much detail.  Have you read Helen Hunt Jackson's "Century of Dishonor?

Best of luck.

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net

by DrKate on Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 11:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Glad to see another human being writing about Native American issues, thanks for being here.  

"We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves". Chief Seattle 1854
by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Mon Jun 13th, 2005 at 11:07:34 AM EST
Our challenge is so great right now, I just hope there are enough of us...

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the posting.

There are things happening down in the U.S. Southwest.  We have proposals for new coal-fired plants even though we have two of the dirtiest ones already.  

If you're in the area, there will be a Dooda Desert Rock Power Plant rally this Saturday, the 18th, in Shiprock, New Mexico.  It runs from 10 to 4 at Nizhoni Park.

The rally is to oppose putting more mercury in the air and water here.  It's to oppose removing tribal people from their land to make way for the plant.

Get together, have fun, bring a sign.
Music, food, learn about air.
Send the message:  No more pollution!

Sponsored by San Juan Citizens Alliance (of Durango CO and Aztec NM) and Dine Care.

thanks, D

by red moon dog on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 07:16:03 AM EST
Thanks for the info and keep up the good work.  I will not be in the area this time but I'll be watching for more action.  Thank you!

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 02:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for your posting.  I have spent much time in New Mexico and Arizona and have had an opportunity to see some of the problems of Native Americans.  Our government is apparently rather indifferent.  The difficult choice for Native Americans, as I understand it, is to leave to seek employment or face limited opportunity at home.  Nothing seems to have changed in decades.  I look forward to your perspective.    
by boran2 on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:04:34 PM EST
A "Century of Dishonor" doesn't even begin to tell the story. Its important to keep an eye out for things that help all communities, and not trade off the Native community for something else.

Increased uranium mining in NM is of big concern, although the Tribes are using their sovereign powers to curb or eliminate the possibility.  Given Bushco's energy bent, it seems important to support the Native moves to stop energy development.

Thanks for your comment.

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net

by DrKate on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 at 06:25:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I too agree that the ancestors of Europeans and Americans hold no responsibility for the actions that were perpetuated upon the Native Americans in their time.  I do hold them responsible for their continued repession of rights and constant harboring of criminals within the very organizations that are supposed to help Native peoples.  I can only pray to the Great Spirit that this inequity in the rights of Native peoples will be address in the near future.  There are many fine Native organizations fighting the injustices that have and are being perpetuated against the Native American populations.  Thank you for an informative and spirited discussion, looking forward to knowing you better over time.


"We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves". Chief Seattle 1854
by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 07:25:04 AM EST
I look forward to our dialogue over time.  

We cannot solve the problems of today using the same thinking that produced them. (Einstein) http://www.noquarterusa.net
by DrKate on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 12:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DrKate,

I just wanted to let others know that there is a great Indian National Holiday coming on June 25.  It is the National Day of Celebration in the defeat of the Union Army, at the Little Bighorn.  It is not celebrated like traditional National holidays that are offered by local, state or federal governments.  It is celebrated because for an instant in History, the arrogance and demeaning nature of the Manifest Destiny doctrine was halted and defeated.  This victory was indeed shortlived and was dealt with in a genocidal nature by the American government.  I just wanted to share with those of you who might want to take a moment and reflect on the significance of this one victory over an Oppressor nation.

"We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves". Chief Seattle 1854

by ghostdancers way (ghostdancers_way@hotmail.com) on Wed Jun 15th, 2005 at 12:22:26 PM EST


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