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Is the Euro Area Really Worse On Jobs Than the US?

by DoDo Sun Jul 17th, 2005 at 01:29:36 PM EST

I branched this off the Euroland's Secret Success Story thread.

Below, I will first make an argument for treating the ratio of those with jobs to the total population, rather than to working-age population or to workforce, as the ratio that really matters.

After that, I'll calculate that ratio for the USA and Germany - with surprising results.


I already argued for the above ratio elsewhere,  but let's recap. We are often treated to projections of an exploding number of retirees, who will all live off of ever less working people's taxes/retiree fund contributions.

However, I think that picture ignores two important things: possible changes to retirement age, and real existing joblessness. If ever more retirees would be a root problem, the former would be a solution. But if we do that, we just increase the numbers of the jobless. In fact, even today, there is a practice of virtually reducing retirement age: when companies 'rationalise' by sending workers to early retirement.

Now, jobless people also 'live off' the taxes and contributions of those with jobs. So I think it would make more sense to measure the weight of society on the shoulders of workers by treating retired people and the jobless together.

But, once that thought has sunk in, one can go one step further. Children, while mostly not paid for by the state, are still a weight on the shoulders of those who work in financial terms: they too represent money not paid on themselves. If there are less old people and more children, the overall picture is the same. And there I am: the ratio that matters from a socio-economic perspective is that of people with jobs to that of the total population, whatever the demographics or the statistical tricks involved in counting the jobless.

Now, let's make the comparison across the pond.

In the USA, using the payroll survey that is said to be more reliable on overall numbers, there were a seasonally adjusted 133.537 million Americans in non-farm jobs in June. In the household survey, which is more reliable on relative changes (and has to be adjusted regularly), there were 141.638 million total with jobs. According to the population clock on the US Census Bureau, right now, there are 296,642,102 US residents. That gives a ratio of 45.02% for non-farm jobs in the payroll survey and 47.75% for jobs in the household survey.

For a European comparison, I take "economic basket-case" Germany. For people with jobs, I use the German Statistical Institute's May number, 38.84 million. For population, I'll take the latest number [pdf], the 82.501 million at the end of last year. The ratio is 47.08%.

So, in the end, there is barely a difference in the ratio of people who earn money and people who live from what others earn. In fact, if the US household survey errs upward in the absolute number of people with jobs, Germany may be ahead!

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Important to keep this discussion going. What is beginning to dawn on me, is that we are seeing the beginning of the Anmerican Neo-Conservative ideology being pushed on Europe...and I don't know if Europe is ready for it...so the danger is that Europe will buy into the lies that "free market" is a better system. Thus, the importance of starting to talk about this, and spreading this discussion out to other pro-european people and sites. Ideological warfare is arriving in Europe, plain and simple...and we need to be pushing back with reality.

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Sun Jul 17th, 2005 at 02:34:46 PM EST
agreed. thanks for pushing this.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jul 17th, 2005 at 04:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.

Over at another Euroblog dominated by US expats, Fistful of Euros, Scott Martens also made a very good post recently which I just found. He takes on the meme that no French company in the top 25 was founded in the last 40 years, while 19 of the Top 25 American firms were - but he finds one French and two American firms that fit the bill.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jul 17th, 2005 at 05:36:23 PM EST
I re-read this article and comments again, and I think it is a very important point you are making. Perhaps it is because I've had a long day...but you lost me on the beginning part of the article...however, you then grabbed my attention at the end of your article, when you more succinctly began comparing the US numbers with European numbers (at the "across the pond" point). That there is no real difference (or the US might be worse!). That's a strong point...as an editorial comment, I'd suggest moving that up in the article, so people see this info. earlier on, which would make your point "punchier" (but then, as I said, I'm a space case about now...)

 

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Jul 18th, 2005 at 12:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Paul Krugman addresses the question of the reliability of US unemployment statistics today in the NYT.

Many seemingly authoritative figures, not all of them partisan shills, say that the American economy has fully recovered from the recession that began in 2001. They point to the unemployment rate, which has fallen from a peak of 6.3 percent in 2003 to 5 percent last month.

<snip>

For some reason, however, the public isn't feeling prosperous. Gallup tells us that only 3 percent of Americans describe the economy as "excellent," and only 33 percent describe it as "good."

Maybe people are just ungrateful. Maybe they've been misled by negative media reports. Maybe they're grumpy about their paychecks: adjusted for inflation, average weekly earnings have been flat for the past five years.

Or maybe the figures on unemployment are giving a false signal.

Economists who argue that there's something wrong with the unemployment numbers are buzzing about a new study by Katharine Bradbury, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, which suggests that millions of Americans who should be in the labor force aren't. "The addition of these hypothetical participants," she writes, "would raise the unemployment rate by one to three-plus percentage points."

<snip>

As Berkeley's J. Bradford DeLong writes on his influential economics blog, "We have four of five indicators telling us that the state of the job market is not that good and only one - the unemployment rate - reading green."

In particular, even the most favorable measures show that employment growth has lagged well behind population growth over the past four years. Yet the measured unemployment rate isn't much higher than it was in early 2001. How is that possible?

The answer, according to the survey used to estimate the unemployment rate, is a decline in labor force participation. Nonworking Americans aren't considered unemployed unless they are actively looking for work, and hence counted as part of the labor force. And a large number of people have, for some reason, dropped out of the official labor force.

Those with a downbeat view of the jobs picture argue that the low reported unemployment rate is a statistical illusion, that there are millions of Americans who would be looking for jobs if more jobs were available. Those with an upbeat view argue that labor force participation has fallen for reasons that have nothing to do with job availability - for example, young adults, recognizing the importance of education, may have chosen to stay in school longer.

That's where Dr. Bradbury's study comes in. She shows that the upbeat view doesn't hold up in the face of a careful examination of the numbers. In fact, because older Americans, especially older women, are more likely to work than in the past, labor force participation should have risen, not fallen, over the past four years. As a result, she suggests that there may be "considerable slack in the U.S. labor market": there are at least 1.6 million and possibly as many as 5.1 million people who aren't counted as unemployed but would take jobs if they were available.

There's both good news and bad news in that assessment. The good news is that the economy probably has plenty of room to expand before inflation becomes a problem (which implies that the Fed's decision to start raising interest rates was premature).

The bad news is that it's hard to see where further expansion will come from. We've already had four years of extremely loose fiscal and monetary policy. Tax cuts have pushed the federal budget deep into the red. Low interest rates have helped generate a housing bubble that has lifted real estate prices to ludicrous heights in major parts of the country.

See Brad DeLong for more.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jul 18th, 2005 at 09:34:27 AM EST
Here's two things that stick out for me from the article you quote:

Economists who argue that there's something wrong with the unemployment numbers are buzzing about a new study by Katharine Bradbury, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, which suggests that millions of Americans who should be in the labor force aren't. "The addition of these hypothetical participants," she writes, "would raise the unemployment rate by one to three-plus percentage points."

So...we are really talking about 6% to 8% unemployment in the US, if this study is true!!

And:

Nonworking Americans aren't considered unemployed unless they are actively looking for work, and hence counted as part of the labor force. And a large number of people have, for some reason, dropped out of the official labor force.

Dropped out? Or couldn't find work?

It points to a big question: is the US system doing significantly better than Europe? I'm questioning this myself (but I have been awhile...)


"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Jul 18th, 2005 at 12:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is the U.S. doing better than Europe? That is impossible to answer, because the expectations are so totally different.

Something you're not likely to see in Europe: A shooting range with housewives using machine guns--or am I terribly misinformed???
http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2005-01-06/cover2.html

by asdf on Mon Jul 18th, 2005 at 01:46:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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