Olympics countdown diary

by Jerome a Paris Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:40:39 AM EST

Update [2005-7-6 9:7:37 by Jerome a Paris]: Detailed voting results:

Round 1: Londres : 22, Paris : 21, Madrid : 20, New York : 19, Moscou : 15 (Moscou out)
Round 2: Madrid : 32; Londres : 27, Paris : 25, New York : 16 (New York out)
Round 3: Londres : 39, Paris : 33, Madrid : 31 (Madrid out)
Round 4: Londres : 54, Paris : 50 (Londres wins)

Update [2005-7-6 7:58:41 by Jerome a Paris]: it's London.

Update [2005-7-6 6:41:35 by Jerome a Paris]: Madrid is out. London vs Paris as expected...

Update [2005-7-6 6:40:39 by Jerome a Paris]: Moscow is out, followed by New York. Down to the 3 European cities...

Update [2005-7-6 4:10:35 by Jerome a Paris]: bumped up by Jerome. Everybody's breathlessly waiting for the decision here in France. The French presentation was described as very successful on radio, but that was before the others took place. What's the story from where you are?

~~2 days from now~~Late today, the city that will host the 2012 Olympics will be chosen, and I can tell you that this is making all the headlines here in France.

Earlier version of the post:

There is a growing fear over here that Paris will be beaten by London, which would really be the final straw, and a really strong symbol of France's decline and the UK's renewed strength.

The FT (French seek antidote to nation's ills) captures this reasonably well in describing how the French are desperate for good news these days.

So, do you care? Where would you like to have the Olympics? How should any choice be interpreted?

Poll

Votes: 20
Results	\|	Other Polls

Olympics countdown diary | 77 comments (77 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

Good morning Jerome.

I have a feeling that London may be about to nose out Paris for the 2012 summer games.

This is what I have picked up over the last couple of days.

With the G8 summit in mind Blair is a little worried about the reaction of 'Uncle' Jacques if London wins the bid. With France and Britain being traditional allies at G8 summits and the current intransigence of the US administration this is a big worry for Blair.
Tone of the coverage has changed over the last couple of days. Before today it was widely expected that Paris would win and London would come second. This seems to have changed over the last couple of days. By all accounts, some of the IOC swing votes are less than pleased with the attitude of the French President.

As for commentators imbewing this particular result with greater symbolism: I would guess, with relations between the two governments as they are, it would be unavoidable.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying

by RogueTrooper on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:17:07 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Yes, the feeling here as well is that London has been pulling all stops to win, and that a Paris win is much less certain than was hoped.

We'll see...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:19:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

More British spin: (none / 1)

The mood in Moscow

The mood in Madrid

The mood in Paris

The mood in New York

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:17:36 AM EST

Re: how decided? (none / 0)

How is this decision made? (There has to be a lot of money involved in this decision...Is there any legal "payola" involved...er, "investment", in the process?) And how will the Brits respond, if it is Paris?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:24:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

The expectation, in Britain, is that the Paris would win and London would come second. Subsequently, there will be no loss of face for Britain if Paris wins.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying

by RogueTrooper on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:30:33 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

An interesting tidbit from the BBC on this decision, (and its getting a little nasty):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4646759.stm

"Paris was upset on Monday after the Stade de France stadium, centrepiece of the Paris bid, was criticised at a London 2012 briefing.

Sydney 2000 organising chief Jim Sloman and architect Rod Sheard suggested the venue was not ideally suited to stage Olympic athletic events.

Paris will not lodge an official complaint, but the episode serves as a reminder of the strict rules set down by the International Olympic Commission's ethics commission, which state bid teams are not allowed to criticise rival cities."

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please Not London (none / 0)

As a Londoner, I really don't think the city has the appropriate transport infrastructure in place (currently) to host the Olympics, and don't see it being put in place byt the time the games would take place. However, as others have said, the Brits are really gunning for it.

The popular opinion here is that the French will likely win, but that London 'deserves' to.

As an aside, is the work 'NO' the first thing that anyone else sees when they see the Moscow logo? It's a nice logo, and I see how they were trying to use the Kremlin imagery (that's where that toiwer is), but they don't seem to have focus-group'ed it in English-language markets.

by Scipio on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:42:41 AM EST

Re: Please Not London (none / 0)

boy you got that right. I'm 10 years out of date but London's not up to it unless there have been huge changes.

Also, are the existing sports facilities adequate? I went to Wembley in the early 90's and concluded that if it were in the US it would have been dynamited years earlier. Even my college team had a nicer stadium.

As for places like the Oval, again ancient ramshackle facilities with miserable sightlines (at least from where I sat). Didn't ever enter Lords but sure looked old and "full of tradition" from the 2nd level of the bus. If this is what London is basing their bid on........

Not that we'd spend the money to fight the crowds half way around the world to watch track and field anyway.

by HiD on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Not London (none / 1)

I'm not quite sure about the majority of the facilities, but they're in the process of building a new Wembley, which would probably end up being the 'oficial' Olympic stadium. While it should be a pretty decent stadium, it's been criticized for having too many private boxes in the prime seating areas, as well as having sub-par transport links.

It's also a few billion pounds over budget and will end up a year or two late, but that's to be expected with English construction.

Lords' isn't that bad nowadays, but seeing as it's going to be used for Archery, I'm not all that worried about it. Beach Volleyball is going to be in horseguards, which, while pretty sacreligious, is nothing compared to having it in Tian'an'men Square (like they're planning for in Beijing).

As for the rest, I'm nto sure where they're building them. I remember hearing about plans to raize the hundred football pitches of Dalston to build an Olympic village, and to redevelop parts of the East End for it as well. However, in order for that area to be enev renotely accessible, they need Crossrail - which ain't happening for a long time.

by Scipio on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 07:21:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please Not London (none / 1)

The London bid includes existing facilities like the boating lake, the new Wembley statduium (due for completion next year) for football and Wimbledon for tennis; some venues like Lords used for current Olympic sporte (archery) rather than their normal use for old Olympic sport; temposrary use of landmarks like Hoseguards for beach volleyball (Paris would use the area under the Eiffel Tower) with the main stadium, velodrom and other facilities including the Olympic village just outside Stratford.

The Olympic area will be served by a high speed link from Stratford. That station will be on the new high speed channel tunnel link that terminates at Kings Cross and extra link trains will be run along that line. Crossrail may well go ahead for completion by 2012 if the bid is successful but Stratford is also served by the Jubilee Line extension which gets to central London in about 15 minutes and also the Docklands light railway which links to London City airport. Transport is therefore probably as easy as Paris even thought Paris has a more compact city centre bid.

Of the bidders, Moscow and New York are probably likely to go out first. Moscow has image and security problems. New York's bid should have been ruled out according to the rules because of the loss of the original stadium site. Madrid is likely to go out in the third round - although it has some positive aspects, its major disadvantage is that Spain had the Barcelona games fairly recently. London and Paris will probably be in the last run-off. Their bids are thought to be fairly evenly balanced with Paris having existing builds and more hotel rooms available at the time, London's bid has greater legacy (the main site will be used for a sports academy with the main stadium "shrinking" in capacity for ordinary meets) and regenerates a far bigger area than the Paris bid.

The final vote is thought to be so tight that indescrete remarks from Chirac about Finnish food might swing the balance. If London did get it, it would at least mean that there will be more time to prepare than the last time when there were less than three years after London bailed out the Olympics with a venue for 1948 when no-one else was willing or capable to. It will also bring the Olympics back to the home of the modern Olympics (read the history and where de Coubertain got the idea)

by Londonbear on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 08:45:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

I'd like to see the games in Paris simply because I'd like to see some events live if ticket prices are not outlandish. Conversely, I am not sufficiently interested in the event to travel to London just for a day at the stadium. I'm a bit surprised and concerned to see how much everyone seems to be expecting a morale boost from this decision. It strikes me as disproportionate and a bit pathetic. Driving out of Paris for the weekend, my wife and I passed by the « Assemblée Nationale » the front of which had been turned into a giant billboard for the Olympic bid. This struck both of us as being an undignified use of the seat and symbol of French democracy.

If the Paris bid does not win, I'll be mildly disappointed but I certainly won't be demoralized nor will I be upset by any tasteless gloating on the part of Mr. Blair or anyone else.

I'm more concerned by how much people seem to have riding on this to cheer up. It's just a sporting event and it won't, or shouldn't change our lives.

by Guillaume on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 06:59:59 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

OK, as a London-loving Paris fan who likes New York (and has nothing against the other places), I'll weigh in and say I don't give an Olympic fuck where they hold the Games.

If just part of the money spent on campaigning, planning, and finally building lavish sports complexes, etc, were spread around on amateur sports facilities all over the countries concerned, that would do a lot more for sport, and public health, and society in general, than the great four-yearly dope-fest on TV that the Olympics have become.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 10:22:37 AM EST

because NY is only two hours drive (none / 0)

from me, I would selfishly want to see them there.

Help us Europe, you're our only hope. Our media is protecting the village idiot and have declared him King. = )

by TeresaInPa (Teese02aATYahoo.com) on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 03:37:09 PM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

The sensible thing to do would be to hold them in Greece, every year. That way the infrastructure could be amortized over multiple events, instead of costing local citizens millions to construct a venue for a two-week event.

Maybe the winter Olympics could be held in Switzerland or Japan or Colorado. Two sites, one for the summer and one for the winter.

by asdf on Mon Jul 4th, 2005 at 07:50:56 PM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Yes, lots of money being spent on this...but, also, its business...and I think Paris/France would really benefit...plus give France a chance to 2strut her stuff', so I'm hoping she wins. Soon find out...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 04:53:52 AM EST

Olympics 2012 - Paris Chirac Victory! (none / 0)

Paris - New York - Madrid - London - Moscow

Paris 1924 Last Olympic Games

~~~

Singapore Malaysia today

1980 - Moscow ◊ 1984 - Los Angeles ◊ 1988 - Seoul ◊ 1992 - Barcelona ◊
1996 - Atlanta ◊ 2000 - Sydney ◊ 2004 - Athens ◊ 2008 - Beijing ◊
2012 - ... 50 votes needed

PS Jerome, I hope you don't mind me jumping the gun ahead of the decision proces today within the IOC.

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:08:35 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 2)

Live blogging from the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4654201.stm

They are really trying to create the perspective of a likely London win. I'll be curious to see them explain after a (hoped for) Paris win that the Paris bid was really superior, no question about it, and that it was already a miracle that they got so close... I don't even want to imagine the crowing if they win!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:24:58 AM EST

Moscow and New York are OUT! (none / 0)

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Olympics - Madrid OUT - London next? (none / 0)

.
OFFICIAL DECISION in 45 minutes

Paris - London

Olympics countdown diary ◊ by Jerome a Paris

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:47:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

A bit off-topic.

Could the European Tribune timestamp be changed to CET?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:46:30 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Apparently not (Californina software...)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:54:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

You can change it in your own settings.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 07:08:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Ah, many thanks! Didn't saw that settings has three pages!

(This California software is good! ;-) )

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 08:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Me Oh My (3.60 / 5)

Chalk up one more for the Anglo-Saxon horde

by EU Rota (eu_rota *at* yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 07:49:13 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 2)

Good Morning, Jerome! (uh, good afternoon for you.) Paris was ROBBED.

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 07:49:50 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 3)

I wonder if Chirac's remarks about food tipped the final balance.

by Londonbear on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 07:52:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Olympics 2012 - LONDON! - Blair is winner (4.00 / 3)

.
Will the Brits finally finish the tracks from Eurotunnel to London by 2012?

We can still have dinner in Paris during the Olympics!

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:02:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics 2012 - LONDON! - Blair is winner (4.00 / 4)

Eh, until Blair pulls those troops, he continues to be a big, fat loser in my eyes.

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:17:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics 2012 - BERLIN, er, LONDON! (none / 1)

Indeed, I think the only certainly we can bank on is that Eurostar will use this as an excuse to jack up their prices.

by Lupin on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:29:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 2)

I missed the remarks. But my question is this...would you rather have a croissant or baked beans for breakfast?

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:11:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 2)

That depends on whether I'm going to be swanning about a city or crawling through a cave.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:22:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Well Colman, I DO dig your mustard. (with apologies to Jacques Clouseau) :)

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 12:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

Growl. You try being hip deep in silt on a croissant. Baked beans, and preferably large amounts of salted pig in various combinations are just the thing.

Mind you, if any of your group have adverse reactions to beans, one might want to avoid enclosed spaces.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 02:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Come on! London deserved it. The UK hasn't hosted any Olympic Games since 1948!

by NYCO on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:01:39 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

Paris hasn't hosted since 1924! Now who's deserving?

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:08:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 3)

The London 46 games were not planned but were hosted as an emergency measure after the war when no-one else would offer to hold them. They were based on the old White City stadium built for the British Empire Exhibition and games. There is still a legacy of that in every games as the exaxt distance of the marathon was then set down as the distance from the windows of Windsor Castle where the start was to the finish line in White City.

Now Chirac will have to eat his haggis.

by Londonbear on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:19:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Can you make Bush eat haggis while in Scotland? Come to think of it, he IS haggis.

by caldonia on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:35:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

France has had how many Olympic games over the past 50 years? I'm talking about Winter as well as Summer.

The UK has had zilch Olympic games since 1948!

by NYCO on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:25:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 2)

Sounds like Chirac missed a great opportunity to shut up...

It should have been Paris. Can I go back and change my vote now? :-)

by asdf on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:10:36 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

From where I sit a game in which the winner had to be either the truly loathsome Blair or the revolting Chirac is a very sorry game indeed.

If France had won at last the games wouldn't have gone to a country presently led by a war criminal. Can anyone say Berlin?

by Lupin on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:23:56 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

My sentiment too, if it wouldn't be for Bliar and the Iraq war I could be happy with this choice.

by Fran on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:42:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Great. Remind me to abandon the British Isles for a month or two in 2012.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:37:57 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

And you think London is expensive NOW...whoa Nelly, it's gonna cost ya if you are in London when these Olympics happen, that's for sure! (At least I have family I can hit up for a couch, should I decide to go...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:40:21 AM EST

Olympics 2012 - LONDON Blair Victory! (none / 0)

London

London - Trafalgar Square Today

London 1948 Last Olympic Games
Women Athletics - Fanny Blankers-Koen 3x Gold
Mother and housewife - the Flying Dutch Woman

~~~

Singapore Malaysia today

1980 - Moscow ◊ 1984 - Los Angeles ◊ 1988 - Seoul ◊ 1992 - Barcelona ◊
1996 - Atlanta ◊ 2000 - Sydney ◊ 2004 - Athens ◊ 2008 - Beijing ◊
2012 - London!

Olympics countdown diary ◊ by Jerome a Paris

PS Difference was 4 votes: Madrid votes to London.

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:43:12 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

Can the Greek press now begin to write horror stories about the awful traffic in London, the price gouging, the security nightmare?

Probably not. Who reads Greek newspapers?

by Upstate NY on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:43:15 AM EST

Sorry Jerome (none / 1)

I know how much you guys wanted it. My condolences in your disappointment.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:52:51 AM EST

Re: Sorry Jerome (none / 0)

I second that emotion. I figured the French people could have used the boast in the business (and jobs!). Bummer...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:40:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

British Olympic Athletes (none / 0)

.
Great warm presentation in Singapore today, the last chance to swing votes!

London Games would 'inspire athletes of tomorrow'

Lord Sebastian Coe

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 08:58:24 AM EST

Seb Coe (4.00 / 2)

If anyone has a full transcript of Coe's presentation, I'd like to read it. The parts of it that I've read seemed right on the money with inspiring children and multiculturalism as important themes. Of course, sounding better than a wisecracking xenophobic old fart like Chirac ain't hard but you have to have a soft spot for Coe and his achievements. Cheers to London and no, you can't have the Tour de France next!

by Guillaume on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:16:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Coe - 2012 plea to the IOC (none / 0)

COE ASKS FOR BOLD DECISION

Sebastian Coe has launched a passionate and inspirational plea to the International Olympic Committee to deliver the 2012 Games to London.

The bid chairman's closing speech told the IOC members they had the opportunity to be "bold" and vote for London and take the Olympic movement forward - or by implication stand still and vote for a less ambitious Games.

Coe appealed "on behalf of the youth of today" and explained how he had been inspired to become an athlete as a 12-year-old by watching the 1968 Mexico Olympics on a black and white television.

[...]

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (4.00 / 2)

but the optics here--reward the country that went to war illegally, not the country that stood up against an illegal invasion--are awful.

At least we can rest assured that this was a sporting decision entirely free of politics.

Eh?

A la prochaine?

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:13:55 AM EST

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (none / 0)

I wasn't aware that the people of Great Britain were all that hot on this war.

by NYCO on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (4.00 / 2)

Thank you - as one of the million and a half people who marched on the streets of london against the war (the biggest demonstration in the UK ever).

by Boudicca (badgerval at hotmail dot com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (none / 0)

Ah . . . but will the people benefit from hosting the Olympics?

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (none / 0)

Yeah, but would the French people benefit either?

by NYCO on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:50:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (4.00 / 3)

OK, cards on table time.

I see that the Olympic Games are a way to sell huge infrastructure investments, and that some of that investment is of general benefit. But much of the megabucks thrown around goes to the same old bunch of fat cat usual suspects, and the curmudgeon in me doesn't like that, and doesn't like the fact that all this sports nonsense has to be used as the cover for urban renewal.

It's all about money, it's all about politics, and the people are more or less innocent bystanders. (Spectators, one might say.) So that's why I said at the start of this conversation that the optics are bad. The Games are not 'awarded' to the people of the UK or of London, whatever the rhetoric may say; they are awarded to the government.

I'm all in favour of urban renewal, but I'm not in favour of a gesture that apparently puts the stamp of approval on a government that chose to join in with an illegal invasion and occupation against the wishes of the UN Security Council.

Sorry to rain on the parade.

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 11:56:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't wish the Olympics on anyone (none / 1)

The idea of the 2012 Olympic Stadium design is that for the 3 week period of the 2 Games it will have a very large capacity (bigger I believe than the Stade de France) but afterwards a lot of the seating will be removed so the stadium "shrinks" to the size of a standard internation athletics stadium. The velodrome, stadium and swimming complex will form the basis of a new sporting excellence academy and be available for local use.

The Olympic village will be used for social housing afterwards and will use the improved road and rail infrastructure (a lot would have been in place anyway but there are some addtional links as a result of the games). A lot of the site is a highly polluted disused industrial site at the moment so much will be spent on relaiming the land. Some has already been utilised for leisure land in the "Lea Valley Regional Park" but this will be further landscaped with river improvements and new landscaping after some of the temporary buildings have gone.

The improved infrastructure is part of the "legacy" that was an important aspect of the bid. The intention is that the Olympics will be linked in to sports for young people to provide the "next generation" who will be competing in 2012 and beyond. In sporting terms a proper Olympic standard swimming pool in the East of London is significant as there are very few in the capital (Crystal Palace being the other big one).

The Games are intended to pay their own running costs but the capital works are budgetted to cost and extra £2.2 billion. Much of this is to be funded from National Lottery income with addtional amounts coming from a £20 per year precept on the local property taxes accross London.

by Londonbear on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 11:02:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fanny Won 4x Gold in 1948 (none / 0)

Fanny Won 4x Gold in 1948

Koen had won the 100 meters and 80-meter hurdles in London when she told her husband and coach Jan Blankers that she wanted to return to Holland to be with their two sons. After Blankers convinced her that she would regret leaving, "The Flying Dutchwoman" captured golds in the 200 meters and 4x100-meter relay.

FBK - Fanny Blankers-Koen Games in Hengelo

USA WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooMan Tribune and add some cheers!

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:20:25 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 3)

Ah, so now Blair will begin his watch as EU "president" in a plastic 800-pound gorilla suit and a pair of coconuts.

God help us all.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:53:41 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (4.00 / 3)

Quote:
If France had won at last the games wouldn't have gone to a country presently led by a war criminal. Can anyone say Berlin?
*
Yea...
And can anybody explain roots of word "lobbying"...How that stands for bullying and corruption...Never before I believed in decency in Olympic games cause it's all about BIG business anyway and games have lost it purpose long time ago ...
Another "Anglo Saxon's lobbying" success they said here on TV...Great! Let them have it!

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:27:34 AM EST

Can anyone say (none / 0)

the Old Left is bankrupt? Can anyone say that Blair holds all the cards? Can anyone say that the French have some soul searching to do concerning their future?

The idea of comparing Blair to Hitler says more about you than it does anything about Blair.

by Coriolanus on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 03:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can anyone say (none / 0)

Maybe but still...it rings a bell...
Sorry to hurt your feelings about Blair but isn't his party "left" (Labor) party at least in its name?
I am not even really leftist and I am not anti British or pro-France but this smells fishy...If it smells fishy you can bet fish is there somewhere...
The fact that Olympic lobbing means bulling and corruption wouldn't change even if Paris has won...It would mean that they have done more of the above...
Blair is a war criminal - nothing can change that FACT!

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 03:39:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Ahhh,

This is one of those kind of sites.

by EU Rota (eu_rota *at* yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 12:30:31 PM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

Which kind?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 12:51:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

I believe EU Rota means the kind that doesn't piss on Europe.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

No. I love Europe. I was referring to deleted comments which I suppose don't fit the agenda of this site. Thats cool.

I actually want continental Europe to be competitive!

by EU Rota (eu_rota *at* yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

I didn't know comments of yours had been deleted.

However, one look at your blog, and I have to think there's a certain amount of snark in that I actually want continental Europe to be competitive!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

I truly do. Competition is good for all concerned. No snarking at all.

by EU Rota (eu_rota *at* yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No deleted comments (none / 1)

As administrator, I can confirm to you firmly that no comments have been deleted - or hidden by the software.

I have seen your site and was planning to invite you around, even though your opinions certainly do not fall in the mainstream of this site. But we're mostly reasonable people and I hope we can have some lively and open debate if you stick around!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No deleted comments (none / 0)

Jerome. Many thanks. I will look around for it again. I do everything but ad hominem attacks :-)

Best of luck on your site.

by EU Rota (eu_rota *at* yahoo.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 02:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

My opinion: EuroTribune is not an anti-British site, if that's the concern, though there are definite strong feelings about Blair, Iraq and his connection to Bush...but hey, the Brits among us are not in disagreement there. And if anything, what I'm hearing from the West (ie, the US) are attempts to divide Europeans from each other. Though, I suppose we should keep an eye on our respective national-isms...keep it playful...this is hopefully a European focused site, more than anything. Yes?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:04:04 PM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

I'm British, whataboutbob. Blair is my Prime Minister.

Just sayin' :-)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 01:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Out of Europe Perspective (none / 0)

I'm quite surprised to see the level of Paris support and anti-London feeling on this site. Having spent a number of years in the East End of London I personally am very happy for the people of London and the UK. Yes Blair should be criticized for his illegal war but to see everything in terms of one event and to punish a people for it is wrong. After all I dont see many on here saying Paris should not be considered because of the highly unprincipled arms trading of the French government, or that London should be supported because of the attempts by Blair to move the G8 on Poverty and African debt. Indeed it is the latter that leaves many people away from developed world happy that London won.

by observer393 on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 12:54:42 AM EST

Re: Out of Europe Perspective (none / 0)

observer393,

As one who has made some of the comments you refer to, I think you make an excellent point here.

The Olympic award should not be seen in the narrow terms of Iraq, or Africa, or anything else, and East End urban renewal has to be a good thing, overall.

Unfortunately, I fear that the award will be seen in the distorted ways we've discussed. Perception vs. reality, and all that.

Thanks for weighing in.

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 02:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

by vbo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 02:50:22 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 1)

Jackie Ashley has a piece in the Guardian this morning about the choice of London, and, though I'm not sure I agree with absolutely everything she says, I think she makes some very good points.

Here's her conclusion:

The really important thing, however, is to keep this victory for London in proper perspective. We have had far too much sneering at the continentals lately, including some from a labour movement that ought to know better. Despite President Chirac's rude remarks about our food (can we honestly say he is wrong?), the French are our natural allies, as are the Germans and Spanish, and our destinies are linked. We need deals on the EU, on its budget, on aid and trade. We need to work more closely, not least in the next few days in Scotland, where, on almost every issue from global warming to aid for Africa, the real foes are the Americans.
Tempting though it may be for some to ratchet up the war with the French, it is not in our interests to do so unless we want to become even more dependent on the United States, jumping whenever George Bush demands we jump, yet expecting nothing in return.
So no triumphalism: let Tony Blair be generous and open-handed in private, whatever Chirac has said about him and the British, and move swiftly on to rather more important matters such as climate change, which has the power to flood our buzzing, multi-ethnic London and to starve Paris of water. That's where the real passion and argument should be directed, not - sweet though this victory is - at the less significant question of who gets to shuttle the archers and boxers round from stadium to hotel in seven years' time.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 02:51:30 AM EST

Re: Olympics countdown diary (none / 0)

I don't see how to edit my comment and it hasn't been meant to be here but as respond above where I've put it. Sorry.
I agree with Jackie Ashley...totally...but is it realistic to expect? Have Europeans evolved that much and became so smart? Oh that would be pleasant surprise....

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Thu Jul 7th, 2005 at 03:50:33 AM EST

Olympics countdown diary | 77 comments (77 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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