Thanks to my fellow Germans

by Bernhard Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 09:51:17 AM EST

More post-election commentary from the diaries ~ whataboutbob

Some very uplifting thoughts on the German election:

There is a majority left of center:
SPD, Green and The Left have won 51.1% of the popular vote and 327 out of 613 parliament seats. Let us hope they will get their act together and join to form a government.
The neo fascist (NPD) with some 2% of the votes are irrelevant.
The neoliberal flat tax meal for the rich has been dumped. I don´t believe it will ever be back on the table.

Germany is very rich, very healthy and reform friendly democracy. Even Wolfowitz's World Bank just had to acknowledge this.

There is danger that the rabbit media campaign of the business interests will further damage Germany.
Just one example: In a talking round on yesterdays "Christiansen" show there were party people from each party plus a business lobbyist lamenting about the "bad" outcome. Why is a business lobbyist part of a party discussion? And if there has to be one, where is the Union leader to balance him?

But for now, that danger has been muted - it may even go away. The German electorate understood what has been at stake and has declared its preference.

Thanks a lot to my fellow Germans. I am very relieved and happy to live here.

Thanks to my fellow Germans | 49 comments (49 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

Frankly, I see the Red, Yellow, Green coalition despite protest to the contrary....what do you think?

by Genf on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:48:31 AM EST

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

I hope for Red-Red-Green though there are many personal issues between Schröder and Lafontaine.

The "traffic-light" coalition is a possibility, but I don´t think it could be effective in government.

The majority is on the left. Schröder and the Greens have lost votes to the left, not the right. It is time for the SPD to acknowledge that.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:13:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

I agree, there is a definite majority left of centre in Germany now. Which is good, but both Greens and SPD have lost to the Links party. Otherwise they would be forming a Red Green colaition now.

have a look here
it gives you the wandering number.

newrly 1mio moved from SPD to Linke.

but what those figures really show are, that the CDU really is the big loser, (as if nobody had noticed that before)
they lost out to FDP 1.1 and to the non voters .6 mio
that's where they lost it. their lost at their base. and they gave the Links party the second biggest group of additional supporters

by PeWi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:20:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

I have missed out the complete story with Lafontaine and the Linkspartei. Why was there a split? Only ego problems of Lafontaine or what?

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 08:36:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (4.00 / 2)

A clean (but messy) political split. Schröder did want to lower taxes and cut some red tape - Lafontaine, finance minister at that time said we cannot afford this and the red tapes do make sense.

Essentially Schröder pushed Lafontaine and his followers out and there were some nasty talks about it from both sides.

Now Schröder was hit back. About all the votes the SPD lost between the last and this election did go to Lafontaines Left Party.

Lafontaine is old Union school left, Schröder is law school left.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 09:35:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

So, basically what the results show overall is that the majority of votes were given to SPD plus the left of the SPD the Linkspartei. On the other hand the FDP has gained a lot of votes too.

I think the mandate shows that Schroeder should form the government, because overall the CDU/CSU has not gained an increase in votes.

The Greens (whatever the second tier guys want there) should not form a coalition with the CDU, because there is no way that Fischer could be seen as going into a coalition with the CDU and the local green party leaders in some parts of Germany should not have the deciding voice of how the Greens form a coalition, IMO.

The FDP should be represented in the government because of their increase in votes. The fact that Westerwelle doesn't want to go into a coalition with SPD seems to be pretty strange to me. May be he should sincerely reconsider what he is doing.

So a clear majority coalition would be a (even redder) red green yellow coalition. May be the Germans should call it the Rainbow Coalition. :-) The fact that the SPD lost his votes to the more left Linkspartei is a mandate at least for Schroeder to form the government.

I mean the FDP guys can counterbalance the redder than reds and the greens can take care of their business according to what they always have stood for, which at least on the environmental issues were not compatible with CDU's conservatives business interests. Let's the FDP in a coalition with the greens and reds do the business of representing the free markets business interests, and not forcing the Greens into a coalition with the CDU together with the FDP.

I am pretty sure that the Germans didn't send out a mandate to the Greens to go into coalition with the CDU/FDP. That's a construct that would not reflect the votes properly, IMO.

But who am I to know.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 10:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter movements (4.00 / 2)

Actually, less than half (41%) of the voters that abandoned the SPD this time went to the Left Party, as can be seen here: ARD analysis of voter movements. 26% went to the CDU and 15% didn't vote this time, the rest went to the Greens, the FDP and other parties.

The Left Party is (at least this time) not ready to be a stable partner for a government. There are tensions between the two parties forming the Left Party, the PDS from the east and the new WASG from the west. The PDS has had enough time to work out how to handle the hard hard left factions in their party, something the WASG has not done yet. And Lafontaine is mostly about himself and quite content to just protest loudly from the opposition without having to actually do something. They are not interested in governing and they are certainly not an attractive partner for any coalition.

by ltl on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 10:21:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Then why the hell do they exist? (none / 0)

I'm so tired of all leftist nuts who rather drag down a working formula because of their "principles" (codeword for narcissism). The splintering of the left occurs everywhere and of course everyone is worse off because of it.

Here's hoping that "The Left Party" perish and realizes that they have to stick to SPD or the Greens and reform from within.

Nader and Lafontaine are enemies of the left.

by swedish liberal on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 10:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why the hell do they exist? (none / 1)

Here's hoping that "The Left Party" perish and realizes that they have to stick to SPD or the Greens and reform from within.

Nader and Lafontaine are enemies of the left.

Lafontaine did try reform from within and was kicked out. Without these left parties there would be no left side at all. They are the ones that keep the others from drifting further to the right.

You may be tired of them, but then do you want to ignore 4 million voters?

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:52:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why the hell do they exist? (none / 0)

You may be tired of them, but then do you want to ignore 4 million voters?

Yup. What do we have here. In the East a party that was de facto created by the ex ruling party cadres who regretted the end of their dictatorship. That they get their votes from those who are understandably upset about the problems with the post-unification economy doesn't change that basic fact.

In the West, a hodgepodge fronted by Lafontaine who in addition to wanting a rollback of the reforms also has discovered a new found affection for extreme right wing xenophobia and racism.

51% of voters did indeed vote for one of the left wing parties. But are you really so sure that all of those voters genuinely want a red green red coalition? There is no way of knowing but I'm pretty certain that if Schroeder Fischer went into the campaign saying they were open to a coalition with the Linkspartei, we'd have been watching champagne corks popping at Adenauer Haus last night.

PS - There seems to be an immplication that ignoring a significant voting block is somehow wrong - why? If the NPD were to get into parliament would you find it strange or wrong that the CDU refused to work with it?

by MarekNYC on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 01:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why the hell do they exist? (none / 0)

Marek, ignoring representatives while in parliament is one thing, not letting them have a party to vote for is another thing.

It is quite anti-democratic from large party supporters to advocate a democratic system where only their parties exist, even (or especially?) with reference to governability or their dislike for the smaller parties' agenda or persons.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 20th, 2005 at 07:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why the hell do they exist? (none / 0)

Here's hoping that "The Left Party" perish and realizes that they have to stick to SPD or the Greens and reform from within.

Nader and Lafontaine are enemies of the left.

Well, just as well, I could say: here's hoping that the SPD perishes and their voters realize that they have to stick to the Left party or the Greens and reform from within. Kerry and Schröder are enemies of the left.

(However, I don't really wish the SPD to die, and dislike egomaniac Lafontaine just as much as Kerry and Schröder.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 20th, 2005 at 07:54:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter movements (none / 0)

Well - the Left Party does not have to be in the administration or even in a coalition. The only have to vote for Schroeder within the Bundestag when that question comes up.

Minority governments are possible and in northern europe they are even quite frequent. So the Left does not need to do much - just sit there and tip on Schröders shoulder whenever he gets to neolib.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:49:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter movements (none / 1)

But if there were a minority government, the Left Party couldn't just abstain voting on all the laws, as SPD and Greens don't have more seats in the Bundestag than CDU/CSU+FDP. The Left Party would have to actively vote for the reforms of the government, which is not likely. And in foreign affairs, Schröder would have to depend on votes from the CDU or the FDP to be able to govern (continuation of the military missions, etc.), votes they will not provide to weaken him.

It would be nice if a red-green government could continue to govern, it's just not realistic under the current circumstances.

by ltl on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voter movements (none / 0)

Sure, but if the reforms were ones the righties agreed with then they'd vote for them even if they didn't go as far as they might like, correct? In the interests of the nation and all that.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Minority government (none / 1)

No, the CDU and the FDP would just let the Chancellor hang out to dry. This way they could force new elections, with the possibility of winning against a weak and embarrassed Chancellor. And even if they would lose in this new election, I think even the most die-hard CDU/FDP politician would prefer a stable red-green government with a clear majority to something like this.

In this election campaign, Schröder used the old Adenauer election theme of "No experiments" successfully against the CDU, and a minority government with "pick-and-choose" majorities would certainly be extremely experimental.

by ltl on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Minority government (none / 0)

No, the CDU and the FDP would just let the Chancellor hang out to dry. This way they could force new elections, with the possibility of winning against a weak and embarrassed Chancellor.

After all, this is what Schröder did himself. The SPD blocked Kohl's tax reform plans in the Bundesrat with the SPD majority, then once in government (and once Lafontaine was dumped), they implemented something very similar.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 20th, 2005 at 07:58:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

no doubt about one thing: Stock market does not like the result. DAX slipped 1.5 % this morning. But it remains to be seen if it is because of the "left majority" or because of the political stalemate. Or maybe something completely different.

by Saturday (geckes(at)gmx.net) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:57:39 AM EST

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Well, we're often told "the markets" don't like uncertainty.

OTOH, (more optimistically), maybe the locusts are beginning to back out?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:12:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (4.00 / 2)

If the locusts back out, then this would have been a very successful election outcome.

by Fran on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 07:27:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (4.00 / 2)

Why should one care about "the markets". A 1.25% drop in the DAX is hardly an extrodinary event. BTW: The DAX has risen 600 points during the last year of Schröders reign.

Even the Economist was laudating Germany as a good place to do business. The "negative" reaction of business leaders now is just plain propaganda.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

you're right.

Concerning the Economist:

It sort of endorsed Merkel some days ago. I suspect it to have done the "Surprising economy"-story in expectation of a CDU/FDP victory. Maybe they were just too confident of a CDU-victory? - Otherwise, they might have published the story later, which would have been better for Merkel?

by Saturday (geckes(at)gmx.net) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

It's not relevant, I think. If at all then it's because one doesn't know yet what kind of coalition we will get. Germans are so angsty all the time. So, I assume, the angst make them push for a "stable" solution pretty soon.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 08:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

oops sorry for double posting.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 08:49:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

This paragraph (from here :

Germany has given anything but a clear signal for political change," Vienna's Die Presse says.
Instead, says the paper, the elections gave expression to the Germans' "notorious conflict of emotions" between desire for reform and fear of change.

See also this, which is indicative, I think:

The Paris daily Liberation sees Germany facing deadlock, with the main parties at the mercy of smaller groups.
"Germany is entering that club of nations where the ability of protesters and radicals to cause a nuisance... paralyses long-term policies," the paper says.
While right-wing extremists have been wiped off the landscape, it says, the leftist Linkspartei now blocks the SPD's chances of returning to power.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 08:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

The Liberation protesters and radicals

Oh, so that is when a a former mister of finance and party leader of the SPD does form a party and gets some 8.5% of the popular vote - protesters and radicals.

The Linkspartei does not block anything for the SPD. If the SPD wants things done in their way, they will just have to compromise - that is what the voters did ask for. Welcome to politics.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 09:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

But to the Linkspartei want to compromise? Or are they just in it for narcissistic self-gratification, like Ralph Nader in the US?

by swedish liberal on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 10:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

Today in TV interviews they mentioned - at least - three conditions the Social Democrats would have to meet before the Linkspartei would even consider supporting/tolerating them.

No more backing of the:

reform "agenda 2010"
labor market reforms "Hartz IV"
German soldiers in Afghanistan

Don´t know if they´ll change their views in the coming days. Right now they seem to insist that Schroeder undoes all of his reforms and brings the German soldiers "back home".
That doesn´t sound like "compromising". :)

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Lets start with Afghanistan. Is there a realistic scenario how and when the troops can come back? If there isn´t (and I haven´t seen one) we should get them out immediately. There is already some mission creap - the US wants to get out and leave the mess to the rest of NATO. IMO it is not our business - so lets get out.

Hartz IV reform was essentially to put the former splitted long term unemployment benefit and social welfare together into one administrative basket. That is arguable a good step if it is not used at the same time to lower benfits as it has happened. I am sure The Left can live with administrative shift and the discussion is about benefit level. So what is bad with that?

"Agenda 2010" - well Schröder did lose a lot of votes to the left so the electorate will has been expressed and should to some degree be followed.
I am sure Schröders own party will see this and that big basket of Agenda 2010 will be opened anyway to scrutinize what is inside. Some items may get tossed out, others in.

Altogether this IS about compromising. What do you expect The Left to do? Demand nothing? They have to put up some points and more important are probably the points they didn´t make.

Did they demand:

Higher taxes for the rich?
Taxes on (international) speculative money?
Big new welfare programs?
Socializing of the steel industry?
Free beer for all?

They didn´t - so I think what they came up with as a negotiation base is reasonable.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

I agree... I think that is why Schroeder is smiling?

by Genf on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

In fact this gives him cover... to get out of Afganistan.

by Genf on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

The whole thing is complicated further because they need to keep an eye on the possibility of a new election if no government can be formed. If they appear willing to compromise too easily then they lose votes in a new election.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

Living so long in the US I am always amazed about what kind of small things Germans seems to complain about.

That is arguable a good step if it is not used at the same time to lower benfits as it has happened. I am sure The Left can live with administrative shift and the discussion is about benefit level. So what is bad with that?

So do you mean the Leftpartei could compromise to agree to lower benefit levels or do you mean that the SPD must agree to higher benefit levels.

Compared to the US the Germans get benefits that an American can only dream of. If I hear on my visits home about what kind of small sacrifices, the Germans have to make after Hartz IV, and what tiny losses in benefits or increases in fees gets them all up in arms, my jaws just drop down. In the overall picture the sacrifices the Germans are asked to make to pay for their social safety net are peanuts. They are certainly not worth to put up with creating political instability. It's certainly the Linkspartei who has some compromising to offer, I guess. But I am not sure.

As for soldiers in Afghanistan. I guess in the long run Germans will be expected to pay their share of sacrifices too.

I don't know what is behind Agenda 2010. All I know is that the Germans are very spoiled with their social safety net and small reforms and sacrifices should rather be made to be able to pay for keeping the whole net working, even if in general the benefits might be slightly less. I bet they will be still much higher than the US levels or the ones of most other European countries.

Germans are known in the US to be pompous, whining, spoiled and rude and rather lazy. Although I don't buy too much into that kind of thinking, there is a grain of truth in it. Most Germans might have a boring, but very safe life and are very well off.

Now of course that's not true for the Neue Laender. How many people voted for the Linkspartei in the Neue Laender? In how far is the Linkspartei and the PDS really the same?

This whining about paying some tuition (a couple of hundred dollars per year) for example is getting on my nerves. One can pay such a thing to keep the overall goal of free and inexpensive higher education costs in the long run. As long you don't end up making it more or less impossible for larger parts of the population at all to pay for their education, which is not the case if you just increase tuition from 0.00 Euro per year to may be 500.00 Euro per year. These are all very tiny amounts of money to jeopardize political stability for. I would always want the further left to compromise towards the center. Are they doing that?

On the other hand I am upset if the Green Party starts to compromise and accepts a coalition with the CDU. There was nothing in the agenda of the Green Party that could remotely be interpreted as being compromisable with the CDU. That would be an outright betrayal. Schily is right in warning the Green Party to do that.

Egon Bahr suggested that the SPD/Green should govern in a minority government. I haven't understood how that would work yet.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 02:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Do you have any idea how that post sounds? It's a caricature of the arrogant American.

The level of benefits in the US is your problem, not ours.

Why do Germans need to accept a reduction in benefits? Why should they compromise with corporate capitalists?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 03:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

@mimi - as colman said - what is your problem?

why should the poor accept lower benefits?

why should students agree to pay tution at all?

why should soldiers agree to get killed in Afganistan?

why should Germans accept a US level of manipulation, tax reductions for a few already rich folks and benefit reductions for a lot already poor folk?

Just because your country is fucked up we do not need to screw our fellow citizens

(I am a quite rich, well off guy now who did even get some lower taxes through Schroeders rule - I also did get a free University education before I was able to make some money, an Army stint NOT fighting an irrelevant, hopeless war in Afganistan - and my current girlfriend did have to live on a borderline social benefit level quite some years raising her kids before we knew each other.)

So WTF are you arguing for? You may be screwed in your system, but to argue that Germans should be screwed too because you are is an extension I can not credit in any way.

Moon of Alabama

by Bernhard (MoonofA .at. aol .dot. com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 04:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

Can't speak for Mimi.

why should students agree to pay tution at all?

Because the German higher education system is massively underfunded. Also I see no reason why the state should provide subsidies to the wealthy and upper middle class. That's why I think their should means-tested tuition in Germany.

why should soldiers agree to get killed in Afganistan?

Because fighting in a UN approved war of self-defense after an attack on an ally is the right thing to do.

by MarekNYC on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Even after the ally has decided to move their troops off to fight some other unrelated war because they felt like it?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Or maybe the government could increase funding to the universities? Just a thought.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, WTF is with the spoiled shit? (none / 1)

And the assorted "generous welfare payments" and so on I've seen around the place.

The Germans are deciding how to distribute the money generated by their economy. The US does the same.

The US prefers to concentrate the proceeds in the hands of a few lucky people. Germany prefers to spread it around. It's not a present being given to the German people, it's the German people deciding how to spend their own fucking money.

Enough propaganda.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 05:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Tiny loss of benefit' (none / 0)

mimi: Compared to the US the Germans get benefits that an American can only dream of. If I hear on my visits home about what kind of small sacrifices, the Germans have to make after Hartz IV, and what tiny losses in benefits or increases in fees gets them all up in arms, my jaws just drop down.

Others already replied strongly enough to this especially the comparison part, I'll add one thing.

On late Sunday evening, before the final results came in, on the (private) RTL television channel, there was the SPIEGEL TV report. Most of the show was the TV crew strolling around in Berlin in the last 24 hours before election, asking all kinds of people about the election. Some was grotesque, some was laughable (like some disco kids), but one was sobering and depressing.

That one was with a jobless and (I didn't catch the beginning, but apparently) incapacitated father, who was directly hit by the Harz IV cuts. He explained, falling into tears in the process, that it is really bad, but not as bad as it will be in a few years: because now, he and the other people hit like him still can get on with their daily lifes by selling off their properties - TV, furniture etc. But when they sold off everything, it's over.

You seem new(ly active) on Eurotrib so you may not know me, so hereby I tell you that I am a Hungarian who lived for two years in Germany, but due to several factors (among them: apatriotism, environmentalism, complete disenchantment with each of the two small and two large parties in the Hungarian parliament - where the formation of a two-party system centrists seem to desire is far progressed -, strong affinity to some policies/parties/persons in German politics, intention to one day move there or to Austria), continued to keep a very close eye on German politics. In the German political landscape, I am most close to the Greens but second closest to the Left Party, but not until this clip did I realise what these 'reforms' mean in practice. (Even tough we already had that stuff here in Hungary and I can see the results.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 20th, 2005 at 08:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 'Tiny loss of benefit' (none / 0)

BTW, one more reason why I am such a virtual German in politics: Germany is in a crucial position within the EU, and a right swing there could unleash a neoliberal policy avalache at the EU level. There is a new frontpage article by whataboutbob on the EU angle.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Sep 20th, 2005 at 08:36:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

Sorry, I didn't follow from the US what the dispute between Linkspartei and SPD was, so I am a bit at a loss here.

by mimi on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 02:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As a non-German, (4.00 / 2)

I'd like to thank German voters too. It's a great relief to see they haven't backed Merkel and her free-market "reforms", flat tax, etc. And yes, there is a majority left of centre. Things could have been so much worse!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 06:18:05 AM EST

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 1)

Looks to me as if the Germans are just as skeptic about the US/UK-Business model as the French and the Dutch were. Even if reforms are needed who says that these are the only reforms possible. So I am grateful that the German stopped for the moment the move towards the right.

by Fran on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 07:36:27 AM EST

Just wondering... (none / 1)

If the US became a "Hot Topic" of the German elections...I was wondering if there would be any fall out... from this election in the US? Specifically, for Hilliary who is modelling herself after Margret Thatcher... Merkel's role model.

by Genf on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:04:19 AM EST

Re: Just wondering... (none / 1)

Lets hope...one Thatcher was enough...and I actually believe Americans are having heavy buyers remorse, and will respond well to an honest, person who cares about the welfare of the people (versus a finger-in-the-wind corporatist...sorry, Hillary...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:45:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just wondering... (none / 1)

There was much speculation and praying from Blair and pro-war US contingent (ie GOP along with the DLC/NDN) that a Merkel victory would ease the European rift with the US.

I am wondering now if this is the reason that Bill suddenly is creating distance between "The Clintons" and "The Bushes"... it is a bit supicious that Bill suddenly remembered that he was a Democrat...yesterday.

by Genf on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 12:12:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (4.00 / 2)

Yes, I thank them too! Germany has reaffirmed a reasonable course. I've just listened to the BBC's Europe Today. What a bunch of windbags. The appraisal was all negative, negative, negative. British liberalism is the beginning and end of any game on this earth. And with a PM like Tony Blair who can refuse to believe it? The only bright light was Turkey's increased chances of accession, another Anglo-American preoccupation. As if Europe nowadays turns on Turkey.

by Quentin on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 01:10:44 PM EST

Re: Thanks to my fellow Germans (none / 0)

In a talking round on yesterdays "Christiansen" show there were party people from each party plus a business lobbyist lamenting about the "bad" outcome. Why is a business lobbyist part of a party discussion? And if there has to be one, where is the Union leader to balance him?

Yeah, I saw that, I thought exactly the same! Shame on the entire media.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Sep 19th, 2005 at 02:59:52 PM EST

Thanks to my fellow Germans | 49 comments (49 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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Thanks to my fellow Germans

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