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US Middle Class on the Edge

by DowneastDem Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 09:45:15 AM EST

There has been some great discussion on this blog about different economic models - especially as they pertain to European politics. The US provides a good view of "neo-liberal" (sometimes called here "Anglo-Saxon") economic policy when carried out to its logical conclusion.

Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren has a disturbing piece in the most recent issue of Harvard Magazine on the declining fortunes of the American middle class. Prof. Warren points out that two-income families have become the norm - and an absolute necessity - for the middle class family, yet two earners today have less discretionary income than one earner a generation ago. Today, 75% of family income goes to pay fixed monthly expenses: mortgage, car payments, insurance, childcare. The loss or disruption of one of these incomes would have disasterous consequences for most families.

In other words, today's family has no margin for error. There is no leeway to cut back if one earner's hours are cut or if the other gets sick. There is no room in the budget if someone needs to take off work to care for a sick child or an elderly parent. Their basic situation is far riskier than that of their parents a generation earlier. The modern American family is walking a high wire without a net.

Then there is this tidbit from a New York Times editorial this morning:
The same report, by the Institute for Policy Studies, a left-leaning research center, and United for a Fair Economy, a group seeking to narrow the gap between rich and poor, found that in 2004 the ratio of C.E.O. pay to worker pay at large companies had ballooned to 431 to 1. If the minimum wage had advanced at the same rate as chief executive compensation since 1990, America's bottom-of-the-barrel working poor would be enjoying salad days, with legal wages at $23.03 an hour instead of $5.15.
So what are the political consequences of an American middle class on the decline coupled with growing income disparity?  Professor Warren doesn't speculate, but I cannot help but feel that it does not bode well for the future of Democracy in the US.


Display:
Living close to the edge, with little or no safety net to speak of, has become an American way of life...the whole Social Security game of Bush made it all that much more scary. One wonders what will be next...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 10:12:40 AM EST
And what is most saddening, when I look at issues like Social Security and health care, is that Democrats don't realize what a financial fight life has become for such an enormous percentage of the population -- a chunk of the population that we have, historically, charged ourselves with protecting.

I do think there is an economic reason for at least some of what Professor Warren has picked up on.  Since the era of the one-earner household, the workforce has essentially doubled in size, thanks to women entering the workforce.  So, from a purely Classicalist, long-run view, we might be able to understand the two-earner household remaining roughly on par with the one-earner household.  (I have no idea if the datasets back me up on this.  Just thinking.)  Obviously, it doesn't work out so neatly.

Now, I'm not sure how recent the data in Warren's study is, but, taking into consideration the recent exponential rises in health care and housing costs (I think the cost of a car has actually fallen in real terms, but I'm judging that only on what I see and my own memory), we can see what has happened.

There's clearly a shift going on.  Whether it's a long-run shift, I don't know.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The US provides a good view of "neo-liberal" (sometimes called here "Anglo-Saxon") economic policy when carried out to its logical conclusion.
This model would  be called "neo-liberal" by most Europeans, and it is only called "Anglo-Saxon" here because (or when discussing how) the English-language business press (WSJ, FT, The Economist) calls it that.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 02:47:57 PM EST
Here in the States we would call it "neo-conservative"

Incidentally, two Bush tax-cuts took effect today which will reduce tax revenues by $27 billion over the next 5 years.  The cuts benifit only 1 out of every 500 American households with annual incomes of $1 million+.

Dialog International

by DowneastDem (david.vickrey (at) post.harvard.edu) on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 03:00:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here in the States we would call it "neo-conservative"

We call it that, but we're incorrect.  Neoconservatism is a foreign policy view.  Neoliberalism is an economics view.  (There's also "neoliberalism" in foreign policy, but when the average person hears the term, it's usually related to domestic economics.)

Anglo-Saxons aren't even the plurality in America today, judging by the fact that Catholics are the plurality in religion.  It's traditionally been a very WASP-dominated country (still is when you look at the presidents), but America is far too diverse to lump under the Anglican label.  There are probably more Latinos and Blacks than there are Anglicans these days, anyway.  Practically every American has blood from another race (just in case you needed another reason to find racism to be incredibly fucking stupid, or needed another way to piss off your racist, Deep-South neighbor, which I find to be quite an exciting sport).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:44:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew, I take it you find deep racism in the deep south today.  I'm from the mid-west (border state end), saw some racism as a child, but I've been in Europe and mainly California for the past 20 years,,,,some Chicago.  and find almost no racism.  particularly in CA, where there is so much mixed blood.  is the deep south deeply racist based on what you see, even today?
by wchurchill on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 01:47:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Deeply racist?  No.  Most people I've met in the South are perfectly capable of living well enough with people of other races.  But the areas I've lived in have both been a mixture of economic liberalism and social libertarianism.

It's, of course, going to depend on where you visit.  But, in my experience, you can find ignorant people anywhere.  If it's not racism, it's xenophobia, or anti-intellectualism, or simply general anti-"Frenchie-ness".  I don't think the region is deeply racist.  Are there tensions?  No doubt about it.  But it's not nearly as much of an issue today as it was back in the mid-20th Century.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:56:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't understand why the term "neo-conservatism" is limited to the foreign policy realm.  If you read the neo-con publications such as Weekly Standard or the National Review you find articles advocating the dismantling of economic safety net programs for the middle class along side of pieces celebrating pre-emptive war and torture.  They seem to go hand in hand.

Dialog International
by DowneastDem (david.vickrey (at) post.harvard.edu) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 08:52:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The "neo-liberals" in America had like 15 min of fame and then were swallowed right up by the neo-conservatives.  The distinction between the two seems more clear in Europe.  Here in America they really are the same, doing each other's work. (Though I think the neo-liberals would deny it.)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The diarist understates the insecurity of the middle class.  For example, education quality varies dramatically from town to town - and is reflected in the ridiculous housing prices.  If a family loses income and has to move down the scale, i.e. to a less affluent town, its schoolage children suffer immediately.  This is a form of insecurity unknown in Europe.

The lack of a federal (national) commitment to education and health is mirrored by the lack of any active commitment to democracy.  Our county-based electoral "system" is enormously expensive and corrupt.  It's purpose is to provide patronage jobs and plenty of cover for skullduggery by local elites.  

American elites are busy turning the USA into Argentina - an economy that went from wealthy to poor in two decades.  Or perhaps I should compare our elites to the DDR, whose leadership believed its own fake statistics, as well as the rest of its propaganda.

by cambridgemac on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 03:23:43 PM EST
So, why don't the US poor and middle class simply vote for the security they so desperately need? It worked in the 30's...
by IdiotSavant on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 05:35:27 PM EST
They need someone to vote for that will offer them the security they need with a compelling message.

Right not, the compelling message about security is a combination of "we should fight them over there so we don't have to fight the over here" and "we need to sacrifice our liberty to save our security".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 05:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And underneath it all are 2 core messages:

  1. There is no such thing as the Public Good.  Every man for himself.
  2. The government cannot organize effectively any project except for national defense and prisons.  Well, maybe torture, too.
by cambridgemac on Mon Jan 2nd, 2006 at 10:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to the author of the book "What's the matter with Kansas?," people have been coerced into voting for politicians on the basis of their cultural values, not their economic plans.  I guess the powerful Christian Right (fortunately losing some of their power...) puts forth the idea that the economic sacrifice is worth the moral gain, and even that maybe God wants you to be poor.  ... Uhg.  

I think the fear of abortions, gays, illegal immigrants, terrorism, etc. trumped the fear of being economically insecure for a long time.  I think thge American people are JUST NOW beginning to catch on to the big bait and switch.  The people they elected to protect their moral interests are not only not doing that, they are also emptying their bank accounts.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The max salary ratio within any one company is about 35-40:1. Overall it is a little higher.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 05:34:05 AM EST
This story of the CEO compensation drives me mad, when I hear that it is free market at work.

Historicalically, I recall having read that in germany it was also between 20-40 in the 2 last centuries, and something similar in Europe and the States (a little higher in Britain, and again in France - not so egalitarian societies).
But never ever over 100 !!!
And everyone wanted to be the boss exactly the same, not a single company remained without a manager, did it?

Talk about bargaining position shamelessly used, and what free market without control leads to.
If I call it distorted market instead of free market, am I allowed to say my politic representative they must rein in? For instance, what about a rule making mandatory to have the top executive salary approved by 95% approval of the votes at the assembly, for instance with a reverse auction ? Every exec should be very good and convincing for getting his today package, and I couldn't oppose it anymore.
By the way, it would still be free market, just with a slight changed bargaining position...
Just let change
 

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

by lacordaire on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:05:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking today that what is required is a new type of legal company structure. Something that changed the motivations. Something that honoured employment. It may sound like a co-operative...

It should be not-for-profit, owned by all who work in it - with no outside shareholders. Salary differential capped at 30:1. Being non-profit, ie after costs, would mean higher salaries all round.

People who leave the company could cash out their ownership, but only by selling to existing owners.

An investment instrument would be needed to put income above costs into a trust to be used for expansion. The trust could be part of a network of similar trusts that invested in government bonds instead of  paying taxes. That way one could control the buggers!

Just dreams - but if anyone with knowledge could point out why this couldn't work - or add to it, I'd be happy...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would completely buy this idea. However, I tend to be pessimistic about that: there will always be people wanting to stand out by being havemores. More money, more clout, well, just more. I tend to think that there is a greed "gene" in each man, civilised though he may be. An old story. Cf Hobbes.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:33:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, the lawyers would surely get to work to find ways around it.

Fortunately they are not so very powerful in Scandinavia. 70% or more of company CEOs in Finland have an engineering background. They usually have a better understanding of systems.

BTW agnes - sorry to involve you yesterday in that little contretemps with our Russian friend. But I think his third comment/threat revealed what we surmised from the beginning.  ;-)

But anyway, I shall be all sweetness and light from now on - until someone else gets my hackles up...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:47:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No pb Sven, I guess I got myself involved pretty eagerly too :-) And today I received a much valued advice from Alex on how not to over-react in such situations. Did not have much sleep last night, but learnt a lot through this.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill
by Agnes a Paris on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:56:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've told you before, Finland is not in Scandinavia...

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:24:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't get me started!

OK let's look at the alternatives:

Nordic region = 'pure' scandinavian (by language) + Baltic states + SF

Baltic region = as above plus Poland and Germany (the old Hansa)

Scandinavia = Pure + Finland (my interpretation)

The language difference is less and less relevant. Politically, economically and culturally my interpretation of Scandinavia is correct.
But if you want to live in the pilkkunussijan past, go ahead ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:39:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The way I see it - as do virtually all Norwegians:

Scandinavia: Norway, Sweden, Denmark
Nordic region: Scandinavia + Finland + Iceland
Baltic region: Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia

I don't find the language difference irrelevant at all; mutual intelligibility is essential to 'Scandinavia.' And Finnish is more closely related to Hindi than to the North Germanic tongues. Besides, the proportion of Finns who speak Swedish is small & shrinking.

But even assuming that it is irrelevant, as you say: Culturally we don't have more in common with you guys than with the Brits or Germans - maybe less. Politically and economically, most of Western Europe is welfare capitalist by now, so that doesn't count for a lot.

However, if you really, really crave to be Scandinavians, we just might let you. Provided, of course, that you quit accusing our cross-country skiers of doping based on pure transference!

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Besides, the proportion of Finns who speak Swedish is small & shrinking.

Correction: the number of Finns who speak Swedish as their first language is small and shrinking.

Swedish is still a main subject in schools, though, I agree, it is under attack.

As for Danes being intelligible, I'd have to argue. But pop a hot potato in your mouth and maybe you can reproduce the speech patterns.

Personally I regard Norwegians as outside the Axis. You can't even pay taxis by credit card, and you need bank loan to get a G+T in a hotel.

We do not wish to belong to any club that would have us as a member.

Please name 10 important Norwegian innovations of the last 100 years. ;-)  (apart, of course, from finding oil on your doorstep)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, for one thing, GSM technology started here:

Above: the head of the Norwegian Torleiv Maseng

But of course, certain others have cribbed it to produce worthless phones that spend half the time on repair...


The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So you can count that far. Not bad for a Finn! ;-)

Seriously though, I think it's time we quit hijacking this thing. We can duke it elsewhere later... Näkemiin.

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 01:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
unbelievably good looking women?  

......(I may regret this remark,,,an attempt at humor).

by wchurchill on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the blonde is an earlier innovation, roughly cotemporal with the cheese cutter.

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Finnish is more closely related to Hindi than to the North Germanic tongues.

Death, where is thy sting. Read: the latter are more closely related to Hindi than to Finnish.

By the way, apologies to the diarist. This is not a hijack attempt - please don't shoot, Mr. Air Marshall.

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pls contact privately for a translation of 'pilkkunussija'...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:41:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Naw, you've helpfully rendered the term elsewhere:

In translation of the politically correct kind, this would be 'a person having carnal knowledge of commas'

What on earth does that mean, though? Starting early on the vodka again there, Sven? ;-)

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since I have been multiple times in Norway - Oslo, Ålesund (Innotown), Stavanger, Bergen etc and have written comunications stuff for various Norwegian companies (lead by Finns) - isn't it time you came here, and did away with all that saga stuff and got the facts?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the welcome, but actually I've been there twice, including Türku and Helsinki. Generally nice place, with many crazy people, in a positive sense.

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But it's Turku without an umlaut. Though Åbo in Swedish.

But I'm surprised you have any neurons left at all after visiting...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 01:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You have an apt call-sign, as you are putting words in my mouth.

What threat are you talking about?  And why don't you just say what you "surmised from the beginning"?

You people remind me of bad hollywood movie about teenagers with their "click" of cool friends.

by skitalets on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Let's eat"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ну, давайте тогда!
by skitalets on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 01:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I believe there are a few "employee owned" companies in the US that fit your model almost perfectly.  The exception to your model is that they are "for profit".  I know one pretty well, and it evolved because the original owner kept the company private for all of his life.  when he died he left the company to the employees, with some very clear legal documents outlining how this would work.  employees share in the profits, and my understanding is they have done very well over time.  the company must stay private--it can never go public.  and I think it doesn not have the abuses in pay ratio that you see in some public companies.
by wchurchill on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Finland there are still very large family owned (forest) companies eg Ahlstrom and Myllykoski. Quite well run but still quite brutal, as they are global players and have to play by global rules.

What I am looking for is a solution to the problem of finding a legal instrument that does not depend on the philanthropy of an individual, but is entrenched in law.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am also troubled with this CEO compensation issue.  But it's more than just ceo's in America.  Sports players can make unbelievable salaries--$10--12 million per year for baseball pitchers, and far higher in other situations, basketball for example--I think soccer too, outside the US.  Then actors and directors can make incredible money.  At least with sports, though it seems egregious, it's fairly clear to the public that the players are truely exceptional.  I think it''s less clear to the public for CEO's that they are far outperfoming others,,,,perhaps with the exception of Jack Welch and Lou Gerstner who turned around IBM in the mid-'90's--but most CEO's are only known in their industry, or maybe even in their company.  and there are some horrible payouts at times with these "golden" parachutes.  I'm just not clear as to how to fix this.  Attempts made in the past have backfired--good intentions and unexpected results.
by wchurchill on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The key to all this, of course, is media manipulation. Whether it is a limited investor audience or a mass couch potato sports audience - the media now act as alternative reality promoters, based on the fact that they now sell an audience to advertisers rather than provide a 'service'. The media are 'market-makers'. Promotion - Propaganda - Content - what's their difference?

That is why I look to this medium - the Internet - to rectify the situation.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One reason that should be examined for the middle class in the United States being "on the edge" is that "middle class" people of today believe they "require" more luxury goods than in generations past.  Many people in "middle class" are two paychecks from the poor house because they accumulate personal debt at unprecedented levels in order to purchase bigger homes than they can afford, additional cars that they really don't need, home electronic gadgets that didn't exist a few years ago, and clothing for kids that is far more expensive than any child should wear.  In past generations, when middle class people couldn't afford to pay for something, they either didn't buy it or saved up until they could make the purchase.  Many American "middle class" people live on the edge because they spend money as if they are "upper" middle class and desire the lifestyle of the wealthy.  
by Grand Poobah on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 11:50:45 AM EST
While that is certainly true, those who are responsible with their money are also living on the edge.  

Health care emergencies, job loss, pension loss, etc. can swallow up the savings of a middle class family which is living responsibly within its means.  

Especially coupled with the new "every man for himself" cultural philosophy.  One simply does not expect or even hope for one's company, community, or often even one's family (because they too are so close to the edge) to come to one's aid in hard times.  The Credit Card is the new "safety net."  Scary stuff.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps, although spending on health care is also a variable that can be controlled: We spend a lot of money in situations where 50 years ago the people would simply have died. And it is hard to voluntarily live in a house comparable to a 1950s house because few people will deal with one bathroom and 1000 square feet while raising three kids. Back in the good old days, we rarely went out to eat. My parents only had one car until about 1960. My upper middle class grandparents went to Europe exactly once, for three weeks, by ship, in about 1955.

People have completely lost track of the way people lived 50 years ago. If there is really a lot of concern, budget yourself to a 1950 standard of living for a few years and save the difference.

I do agree that the Democrats are missing a big opportunity, but I gave up on them a long time ago...

by asdf on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 10:27:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The race issue in the US always seems to draw out widely differing viewpoints. Part of the problem is the limited social interaction between races (and social classes as well). Therefore many people have little personal experience on which to base their opinions.

On TV there are now a large number of all black comedies and family dramas where everyone is well spoken, attractive and fairly well off economically. If white audiences watch these at all they are likely to take this as typical.

The situation in New Orleans was the first time in a generation where many people from other economic and regional classes got an actual look at conditions in a black ghetto. Many commentators are trying to treat this as a unique case and thus the situation in other parts of the country is still ignored. Cities like Detroit have been in economic decline for several decades and only those of limited economic potential tend to remain.

There are also objective measures that are ignored or minimized. Tests of employment and housing opportunities show that when similar people present themselves, the blacks are turned away more frequently than the whites. In a stark example a poll of employers found that a white ex-felon would be hired in preference to a black person with a higher level of educational accomplishment.

The other area that is ignored is the difficulty with blacks in obtaining capital. Banks are much more reluctant to lend money to small businesses when they are run by minorities. Once again, in New Orleans, there are statistics showing that blacks are having a much harder time getting loans to rebuild their homes then are whites.

Some of this may even be unconscious racism, but the effects are the same. I'm just guessing, but I would suspect that the issues with Muslim immigrants in France and Germany would reveal similar patterns of economic discrimination.


Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 12:02:18 PM EST
Yep, same issues in France with people from immigrant families, especially young men.
One difference though: France has just waken up to the existence of racial discrimination in housing and employment and still has a lot of work to do...
by Bernard (bernard) on Tue Jan 3rd, 2006 at 04:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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