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Do It Yourself Energy (2nd Update)

by Nomad Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 07:52:07 AM EST

Sven launched a superb idea last week which deservedly needs to be enacted on: Do It Yourself Energy".

I have a simple dream: a central and easily accesible platform for information sharing and awareness on sustainable energy and CO2 reducing products, coupled to information on financial benefits and CO2 reduction. That's still a whole mouthful, but I hope to lay the skeleton below the jump. In the end, I hope it reaches the point it can come at a parallel level with the European Energy Policy driven by Jerome - with the difference that the Policy is aimed for the political theatres, and this is aimed at the groundmasses. At one point, there should come synenergy between both initiatives, and one thing I could think of as an example is subsidaries of the government for companies to implement certain techniques. The EU seems to broach new plans on this which I haven't seen yet. But it wouldn't hurt stressing it again. Below a basic outline as conjured up to this point.

from the diaries. -- Jérôme


The whole spine of the project should be on assembling data and constructing a database on products and initiatives for conservation. I came up with five main divisions/blocks of information:

  1. Conservation

  2. Wind

  3. Solar
    a.)PV
    b.)Thermal

  4. Geothermal
    a.)Heat pumps

  5. Water
    a.)Turbines

It does look a bit like Captain Planet... There could be a colour scheme at some point. Subdivisions where appropriate should be in order.

Secondly
I want to reach out at an international level, but realise that many initiatives begin from the ground up on a national or even regional level and I think this is fundamentally important for what Sven described as "the hundred silver bullets" method. There are more shoes that can fit, and one shoe might fit better for one area than the other.

Yet news and inventions like this, as tipped by RogueTrooper, or companies like these deserve international attention. Which is why I start here.

Thirdly
A comparative scheme should be realised which allows comparison between several techniques. I think most important data would be:
1.) Price
2.) CO2 reduction
3.) Electricity/gas reduction, where available

Any thoughts on structurising the math on this are welcomed.

In the end, there could be a ranking order or a "Best Buy" based on this calculation scheme. Which is why it needs to be good.

To Do
Firstly, information dump. I'd like to request to everyone to provide this diary with every information you know about sustainable websites and products. And to stress this: In ANY language!!! I can manage in English, Dutch and reasonly in German - but I will have to rely on others to bring in other websites. Consider yourself beseeched.

Dutch websites

ODE - Organisation for Sustainable Energy, with own magazine. As far as I can tell, heavily focussed on wind energy

Boogo Solar - Start page on solar energy products

Index on Sustainable Energy Techniques - A spartan site but with dozens of sites to all kinds of DIY products

SenterNovem - SenterNovem is the governmental agency on durability and innovation

Milieuloket- a site with practical tips on conservation. Little new technology is discussed.

UK websites

UK Products
Wind Turbines
Windsave 1000 System

Swift Rooftop Wind Energy System™ - "the worlds first silent, building-mountable wind turbine"

Irish websites

French websites

German websites

Spanish websites

Norwegian websites

Swedish websites

Swiss websites

Und so weiter.

Display:
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Thu Oct 19th, 2006 at 08:28:15 AM EST
Thanks for taking this further, Nomad.

Also busy - back later.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 19th, 2006 at 08:51:23 AM EST
Ditto, I will contribute whatever I can.  Not exactly on this subject, but I saw that the lady in Australia has Lyme disease, contracted in 1999, which was one impetus for her invention.  My daughter contracted the disease during that year also and took 4 years to recover.  I would be happy to share anything we have learned from her experience.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Oct 19th, 2006 at 10:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cool idea guys!

All I can say is, browse the archives at WorldChanging, Inhabitat, Treehugger, etc. There are literally thousands of technologies there. Some examples:

Silent Micro-Turbine for your rooftop

TiO2 Tiles for breathable city spaces (this actually a kind of extended end of pipe tech and thereby questionable, but can be effective as a statement)

Maglev wind power

Green Insulation Techs

Again, this is a minimal sample from just three blogs. Having a site that compiles all this stuff in a more static way would be valuable.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 09:47:19 AM EST
That's exactly the idea I was going for - piling in ideas and technologies to get 1) a orderly and easy accessible database and 2)comparisons in price, CO2 reduction etcetera per product offered.

Thanks a bunch for these links - if you'd happen to know some German orientated sites, those would be great too.

I'll be integrating them within the diary, which I'll be brushpainting now...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:01:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perfect! I know that a couple of energy companies here in Germany actually have sites. I'll look into that later, gotta get outside and bike a bit now :-)
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh boy do I love the German language!

There's definitely a lot in German. Here's just two and a half.

No-E.de is an initiative of the Umweltbundesamt and several private companies (public-private cooperation whatdayaknow). Here's the .pdf of the UBA through which I found it.

The ZDF (German BBC2) also has a website on saving energy.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 03:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which goes back to my original suggestion that the information is collated here, with back up figures to prove or disprove the mythologies, and written up in an accessible way for the average home owner. And then published as a pdf here for anyone to download and distribute, whether for personal or community use.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:04:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But essentially I've been philosophizing ever since Migeru suggested to create a wiki on this: A website as hub for both companies, products and customers.

Publications would be a good stepping stone towards that and would independently of the former aim generate bigger awareness, so I fully support that for both counts. We then return to the question for an easy accesible deposit on ET papers...

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We then return to the question for an easy accesible deposit on ET papers...

I presume you mean depository of ET papers: that's easily sorted if we had some papers to put in it!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Afew's recent paper is in pdf form, already - my life.

There are two  questions that spring to mind.

  • Where, physically on the page, would the downloadables be placed?

  • Is the management interested in developing this idea?

There are few publishable papers at the moment because there is nowhere to put them. What we are talking about is making ET more activist.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:05:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you suggesting something like MySpace? MyET?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:10:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I was starting a little less ambitiously with a concept for a list of future downloadable ET publications somewhere on the splash page or as a new list category on the right.

I know all this can be done with wikis, wokis and a host of other possibilities. But I'm not talking interactive stuff - I'm talking about good old-fashioned one way dialogues! Or what is now called "Act like you know" in the buzz of the media streets...

However I am not against discussion of a possible MYbrain site, possibly sited at PN.coop ;-).

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:18:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure I accept the direction of causality you're suggesting, but you're right about afew's papers. Hum. Will add to list.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 03:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking of the Green Papers and others as well. A lot of community work went into that.
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are few publishable papers at the moment because there is nowhere to put them.

Sorry, my impression is there are few papers because it takes so much time and effort to produce them, and we are not full-time professionals.

Not that I'm against the suggestion of there being a spot on the page where papers are linked to.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 04:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are many subjects which could be developed over time - without a burden on the members. What I have observed here is that the few collaborative efforts have been set against a deadline for submissions - hence the burden...

If we took a proactive approach, that would change matters.

But of course I understand that motivations are important etc - some people need deadlines to function.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 05:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Branded' PDFs could also further serve our aims of expanding ET - if people download and distribute the PDF publications with ET's name and contact info on them.

Even if people take and use the information that we gather in their own websites, many of them might still quote the source.

But anyway, who really cares how the information gets distributed, as long as it gains sufficient traction to influence the debates?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:00:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the ways to save a lot of energy is to change the average albedo (reflectivity) of cities. Typically cities are 3-5 degrees warmer than the surrounding areas. Much of this is due to the heat absorption from asphalt roads and dark building roofs.

Replacing roadways with lighter surfacing materials and doing the same on buildings lowers the ambient temperature and results in lower needs for air condition (which itself raises the local temperature).

Green roofs are also a good approach, but require care and changes to the design (drainage, support for extra weight, etc.). This has the added benefit of improving air quality and perhaps even some edible crops.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:14:37 AM EST
Well it looks as if asphalt will be under pressure anyway.

Reducing (or increasing, in the case of Helsinki in the winter) the overall heat footprint of a city is an interesting new direction - new to me anyway.

The image of the Hickel Highway in Alaska comes to mind. It was a road cleared across the permafrost to allow trucks to reach proposed drilling areas etc. It is now a canal. I've seen it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Joseph_Hickel

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:26:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reduce, or use? I think both options are worth considering. An initiative I know of stores the heat from the asphalt underground, which can be used in winter to keep roads frost-free. A PDF on Road Energy Systems can be found, here.

Wouldn't we need politicians (city-council, at minimum) and cooperating companies for these schemes? Do you know places where green roogs and roadways replacements are already planned or happening?

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:31:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that is interesting - especially for Finland.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 11:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 12:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. More reading...
by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 12:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The city of London has a good document called "Toward Zero Carbon Developments". You can find the link on this page. It's for local planners rather than for consumers, but you wanted to service all kinds of target groups, right?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 02:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Typically cities are 3-5 degrees warmer than the surrounding areas

There may be something I'm missing here, but this is surely true in winter too? So that summer cooling needs are roughly cancelled out by lesser winter heating needs?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 04:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's true cities are warmer in the winter too. The impact is different, however since in the winter the energy use is for heating (oil, gas, and other fossil fuels - at least in most places). In the summer the energy is primarily electricity, just when the system is under the most strain.

In the US, with deregulation, there is no built in cushion as from the prior regulated monopoly structure for utilities to build excess capacity for just peaks. Plants are now built by independents and they want to run them as much as possible. So there is an adverse impact - less redundancy and spare capacity.

This can be seen in the fairly large number of big blackouts in NYC over the past decade. This may all be irrelevant if the idea is to reduce energy usage, but just try telling that to those who were in the dark for a week this past summer.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 06:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, you're quite right about electricity supply. That is a particular summer problem. Reducing the need for air conditioning should indeed be a priority.

Unfortunately, in Europe, the hotter summers we've been having are persuading people to put air conditioning into offices and homes, while a generation ago its use was not widespread.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 02:08:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is also the issue that siestas and long summer vacations are considered unproductive by the MBA class, but they work as great energy-saving schemes. Air conditioning in offices and homes allows people to ignore the seasons and work more. Just like lighting allows people to ignore daylight and work the same amount of hours year round.

The South of the US would not have experienced the economic growth it has (with the attendant increase in population and political power) without air conditioning.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 04:16:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Something else you might consider is "moving to a place where it takes less energy to survive." I'm not sure how practical this is, or whether it fits into your scheme, but living near the Arctic circle requires one set of technologies, while living in North Africa takes another. If things get as bad as some predict, mass migration may be one of the outcomes.

I would put a rhetorical question here about whether anyone should live in "X", with X being a place that has been populated only since the advent of modern heating and air conditioning. In the U.S., X might be Los Angeles or Houston, but I'm not sure of good examples in Europe. Perhaps the Spanish coast?

by asdf on Fri Oct 20th, 2006 at 10:52:24 PM EST
You touch on a point that I've been hesitant to encase to broach - because I didn't know how to broach it.

I think your idea has merit - there could be such a thing as an energy index on a national or even regional level. You'd wonder that at some point - when/if energy crisis hits - such an energy index becomes reflected in, say, housing prices.

Once there is a good overview of gas and electricty use per region/nation and prices - it would be good to pursue that one.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 08:11:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's part of the reason I moved to northern california. Where I live air conditioning is nice to have for about two weeks out of the year vs. 12-16 weeks everywhere else I have lived. The winter is mild and the furnace does not need to be run often. This area has it's own sustainability problems but it will be around longer than cities like Phoenix.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Oct 22nd, 2006 at 12:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 09:30:35 AM EST
Commercial rooftop solar power generation partnerships (this one with General Motors):

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/21/business/21solar.html


Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 21st, 2006 at 12:01:38 PM EST
One of the things that needs to be considered here is the energy return on investment. We've got 10 years to make the reduction. Solar panels need 7 years to produce new energy, that new wind generator, 4. So you better start soon.
Still the best things to do are: stop driving and turn of the AC.
btw I've lived in Florida now for 35 years. Never used AC. I work out of the house and maintain my level of productivity easily through the summer. My work? computer programming.
by bil on Sun Oct 22nd, 2006 at 11:45:47 AM EST
Darn..............

I had posted a dozen sites and it disappeared.

Here is the last one

http://www.spaceshare.com/ "less cars, more community"
This is a great start-up that should be replicated everywhere.

I have dozens++ of sustainability sites by categories
that interest me like, ideal house, biking, travel, day-to-day conservation, etc.

When I organize my list, do you want them dumped on here?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Oct 24th, 2006 at 06:57:51 AM EST
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Oct 24th, 2006 at 04:59:00 PM EST


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