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A bit wary about getting into cars: protecting prostitutes in Europe.

by Sassafras Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 03:18:44 AM EST

The most disturbing thing about Ipswich is its ordinariness.  A middle sized county town, much of the English population lives in or around somewhere similar.  But a serial killer is on the loose;
the bodies of five women, (three identified as Gemma Adams, Tania Nicol and Anneli Alderton, and two believed to be Paula Clennell and Annette Nicholls) have been found in the last two weeks. All were involved in the sex trade.

The latest woman to disappear-Paula Clennell-continued to work despite the dangers. She told an ITN news crew that she needed the money.  But it had made her
'a bit wary about getting into cars'.

Brought across from the diaries - afew


According to this study prostitutes have a risk of being murdered of 229 in 100,000: a level approximately 100 times that of the general population in Europe, and 40 times that in America.

In any case, the death of a single sex worker is unlikely to make the national news.  In 1991, the kidnapper Michael Sams tested his method on an eighteen year old girl called Julie Dart. There is no reason to suppose she was chosen for any reasons other than her vulnerability working on the streets and the assumption that the death of a prostitute wouldn't create much of a stir.

Sams wasn't far wrong.
Peter Sutcliffe, the so-called Yorkshire Ripper, provoked this statement from the police in 1982:

"...the Ripper, having previously murdered prostitutes, is now seeking victims among innocent women." ('Crime, Class and Corruption: The Politics of the Police', Audrey Farrell, 1992, p128)
from here

I haven't been able to link to the headline of today's Telegraph newspaper, but its chosen term for prostitutes-vice girls-says much about this attitude still existing today.

Protecting sex workers- three models.

It isn't surprising that many models involve getting prostitutes off the streets and into a safe, supervised area.

The Cologne Model

Based on a system already working in Utrecht, this provides a safe zone for prostitutes to meet clients and access services. In a fenced-off area covered by CCTV, sex takes place in cubicles fitted with panic buttons and a second exit.
(Deutsche Welle)  But it's estimated that only 300 out of Cologne's estimated 4000 prostitutes choose to work here.  Possible reasons include reluctance of clients to come to this area and distrust of the authorities.

The Nevada model

This system legalizes and licenses brothels, requiring health checks and compulsory condom use.  
(wikipedia)
Typically, the women work as independent contractors. The system, where a man chooses a woman from a line up, obviously makes it much harder for older or less attractive women to make a living.  Drug tests would be likely to exclude all five women murdered in Ipswich.  If the quoted figure of $300 per half hour is typical, this would seem to cater to the high end of the market.  While there's obviously room for a shift downmarket, especially if the cost of health checks were to be picked up by the government, it's questionable whether this could get all prostitutes off the streets. A brothel, which makes its money as a proportion of the prostitute's fee, is always going to prefer to provide space to young, beautiful women who show up on time.  Can this model absorb and protect the most marginalized?

The Swedish model

takes a radically different view:

"In Sweden prostitution is regarded as an aspect of male violence against women and children. It is officially acknowledged as a form of exploitation of women and children and constitutes a significant social problem... gender equality will remain unattainable so long as men buy, sell and exploit women and children by prostituting them." Swedish government literature

The Swedish approach is to criminalize prostitutes' clients, but not the prostitutes themselves, who are offered support to get out of the profession.

The headline results have been dramatic:

 In the capital city of Stockholm the number of women in street prostitution has been reduced by two thirds.....In addition, the number of foreign women now being trafficked into Sweden for sex is nil. The Swedish government estimates that in the last few years only 200 to 400 women and girls have been annually sex trafficked into Sweden, a figure that's negligible compared to the 15,000 to 17,000 females yearly sex trafficked into neighboring Finland.

Unfortunately, I can no longer find the link, but criticisms include the possibility that much of the problem has been exported as sex tourism (according to wikipedia Estonia is one country to make such a complaint), together with the opinion of some prostitutes that (a) the loss of the on-street network, (b) the fact that all clients are edgy, making it hard to spot an excited and potentially violent client, and (c) that decisions about whether to get into cars now have to be made very fast, have combined to increase their personal risk.

Moreover, not every prostitute wants to give up, and eliminating prostitution is the main aim of the Swedish legislation.  Insisting that these women don't know what is best for them, and aren't capable of making their own choice is the difficult paradox of the feminist prostitution narrative.

So- what is the best way to stop prostitutes becoming victims of violence?  The floor is open...

A note about terms.  I've used prostitute as a technical term for a person who contracts to exchanges sex for  money or drugs. I'd like to acknowledge the existence and vulnerability of male prostitutes, though most information available relates to women.

Display:
The best model I've seen is the Amsterdam model, where sex-for-sale is seen as part of the continuum of "X-for-sale."  Nothing moralistic, all flavours are catered for, with police on bicycles, dodgiest (most dangerous fantasies) most selectively and carefully policed....  Yet they say there are prostitutes behind the station...who will do sex without condoms...

Sex as necessity...the end of which is a goal (yes!) of the ongoing feminist revolution.  Sex as self-control, individual choice--no nannies for adults unless asked for--and within the widest possible system of choices and benefits for ALL modes of living...

The english are repressed...no doubt about it.  Sex to be hidden, puritans....No!  T'is easy to say no, but the id will have its way, and if you refuse to accept sexuality in all its glorious confusion, then death and decay; silence, fear, and furtive guilt....not a healthy recipe...  Better to be honest.

Good diary, Sassafras.  Good summary of the situation, keeping the eyes open, but laying out the facts-on-the-ground.  Thanks!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Dec 13th, 2006 at 07:53:39 PM EST
When I was an exchange student in England we took a weekend trip to Amsterdam, and I have to say I found the Amsterdam model simply sad. As I walked around the red-light district with three other friends those women stripped to their undies in the display windows were absolutely not enticing and, above all, a sad sight.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 04:17:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but not dangerous.  How you feel about it is not the issue.  The protection of prostitutes is, and for the word "prostitute" you can substitute any word you like for women and men who offer sexual stimulation (of varying kinds) in exchange for money.

What I see is that where a moral opprobrium is placed on an activity, that activity immediately becomes more dangerous.  After all, there is absolutely no need whatsoever for anyone to wander around Amsterdam's red light district.  It is clearly marked on the city maps, so those who don't like that kind of thing can avoid it, and it is nowhere near the concertgebau...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 05:10:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Behind the seemingly relaxed Amsterdam model there is also a lot of violence, exploitation and human trafficking. Unfortunately full legalisation (done a few years ago) has so far not brought the industry out of the grey zone.

Those girls behind the Central Station are the heroin/crack addicts you hear about elsewhere. Amsterdam also has a Cologne/Hamburg like site for street hookers, with wooden walls, alarms etc. (a prominent alderman of the Amsterdam social-dems was brought down a few years ago because he was spotted there). Right now they're renovating the area, so the prostitutes will likely move elsewhere.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 03:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard they have the same system in other dutch towns (Haarlem?)  Do they have the same problems?  I think Amsterdam's key problem is that it is the only (as far as I know) (semi-)legally socially liberal town in the whole of Europe, so it gets an unnatural amount of traffic (of all kinds) for its size.  Hords of english, germans, russians, men from all over flocking to a few streets...

I don't know what the numbers are...is the number of non-dutch using (and abusing) the system high?

I read a report once, by two UK policemen who went to Amsterdam and reported back on differences in the system.  They were very impressed by the dutch system, where the arresting officers don't book the person in, and the booking officer doesn't take them to the cells...breaking the emotional chain.  I can't remember if it was in that report that they talked of the way the police deal with organised crime.  I think you would have to compare the Amsterdam (and dutch?) system with how organised crime acts (and is dealt with) in other european towns...I don't know.

But it's still the best system I've seen.  In Italy...the african women with their chairs, one every five hundred yards along country lanes...  First time I saw a woman standing by the road in the middle of nowhere, I thought her car must have broken down; then I thought, hold on, there's no car...  I was slowing down, but she was just standing there...and round the bend...another....then another....

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 04:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Other Dutch cities largely have the same system as Amsterdam, though Amsterdam is by far the largest town for prostitution. I don't know what the percentages of foreign clients are, my guess is that it's pretty high in the red district but not so big outside of it. On the side of Amsterdam where I used to live (west part of the city centre) I'd say almost all the clients were Dutch (and men between 40 and 60).

I'm a bit behind the times on the issue, it seems, I found out through a google search that the city government has been getting tough on criminality in the sector, withdrawing the permits for 20% of the locations because of ties to criminality last November 30th as part of its first of three 'screenings'. This kind of shows how big the problem was.

Organised crime is probably big in every major European city. Here in Berlin there's a lot of Turkish and Russian mafia. In Amsterdam there's a big local underworld, as well as Yugoslav, Bulgarian and Israeli mafia. (This is what I get from the buzz, more or less, I have my finger on the pulse of the underworld and all that jazz, you know, by which I mean to say that I don't know).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 04:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd agree about the combination of sex and shame helping to push prostitution to the margins.

But interestingly, one claim I've seen several times (including here) is that the legalisation of prostitution makes clients more confident, more socially accepted and therefore more aggressively demanding of sex workers.

Shame as the prostitute's protector?  Who would have thought?

by Sassafras on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 04:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I never understood why France has closed its brothels :

it was safe, clean, secured.

I remember how it was painful to see, every morning, a so pretty and young (no more 18-19) East-european girl who looked like my sister, "working" at the roundabout in mini-skirt by 0*C most probably placed here by the mafia.

here in Australia, brothels are a bit illegal, at least in Queensland, but you can rent the room. Therefore a friend of mine (we were in the same MBA), run a brothel open 24/7, it is very clean, modern,"fun", the girls get 50% of the money, he doesnt know their real name but just check their ID when they look young.

i think it is a good solution.

btw i never understood as well, how someone can pay for sex, it s probably much better free ;-).

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Wed Dec 13th, 2006 at 09:00:25 PM EST
Brothels are legal in Victoria, Australia.

This study argues that the Victorian experiment, brought in with a view to 'harm minimisation', has in fact shown that legalisation creates a massive expansion of the sex industry.  Alongside the expanding numbers of legal brothels, the number of legal brothels, trafficked women, and the amount of street prostitution and child prostitution have both gone up.

by Sassafras on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 01:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That should read the number of illegal brothels has also risen...
by Sassafras on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 01:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. I have read that in West Europe too, 'demand' for fresh and submissive flesh in 'legal' establishments is fed through the illegal channels, the same human-trafficking-raping-coercing 'industry'. What's more, there is a fake papers industry growing on this.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 05:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Independent: Deborah Orr: Why these women are paying the price of a zero tolerance approach to street prostitution (13 December 2006)
The way they get money is usually just one more nasty and unpleasant detail in a nasty, unpleasant life

On average a prostitute is killed on the streets of Britain once every couple of months, and few people take much notice. Tania Nicol, Gemma Adams, Anneli Alderton, and two women still formally to be identified, have lost their lives over a much shorter time-span, in one small town in England, and in chillingly similar circumstances. Killing one woman who is selling sex, it appears, is merely regrettable. Any more, and all hell breaks loose.

Many of the reasons for this are pretty obvious. Popular culture has given full expression to human fear and revulsion of, and fascination with, the psychopathic multiple killer. But a large part of the reason why one prostitute's death is easily ignored, and a connected series of them reviled, is driven by punitive ideas about how much a prostitute should be expected to risk for her sins.

Well worth a full read, IMHO.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 04:20:12 AM EST
My model, guardian model:

Everybody knows, of course, why those women sell themselves out on the streets of Ipswich - because they are heroin addicts. As the front page of the Guardian put it yesterday: "Pock-marked and painfully thin, they all bore the obvious signs of heroin and crack addiction ... selling their bodies to feed their crippling habit."

All of that happens to be untrue. Neither of those drugs makes you pock-marked or thin, nor is a drug habit crippling. Nor does it require you to sell your body. All of those things become true only if addicts have the misfortune to live in a society which insists on prohibiting those drugs.

Go Nick

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 11:20:43 AM EST
All worthy

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 11:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Neither of those drugs makes you pock-marked or thin, nor is a drug habit crippling. Nor does it require you to sell your body. All of those things become true only if addicts have the misfortune to live in a society which insists on prohibiting those drugs

But that's the sales pitch to try to scare you into not taking them. But your point is valid that drug prohibition is the cause of the vulnerability of these woemn. As Deborah Orr goes on to point out in the article Migeru highlighted;-

The irony is that those who run escort services or saunas are no more enamoured of drug-addicted employees than are the managers of insurance offices. Addicted, chaotic, mentally-ill, care-leaving girls or abused women - even older, less attractive, or less personable women - find it hard to get work in other, less dangerous, parts of the sex industry, for much the same reason as they can't get work anywhere else. They're just not very employable. They're not good material for entrepreneurial self-employment either.

So none of the models quoted will work for these women.They are made vulnearble by their addiction, an addiction which society blames them for.

Unfortunately, just as street prostitution is stubbornly seen as a feckless choice rather than a rock-bottom consequence of having no perceived choice at all, heroin abuse is viewed as a moral dereliction rather than an addictive illness.

but the solution to making these women less vulnearble would require a politically-unacceptable reformation of Britain's (and probably the global) approach to drugs.


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 12:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Amen

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 12:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All of those things become true only if addicts have the misfortune to live in a society which insists on prohibiting those drugs.

Reality is less nice than that. Sex traffickers often make the 'sex workers' they sell addicts, on purpose.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 03:04:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Stuff like this drives me crazy.  People should get a grip and recognize reality.

Marginal people are at the greatest risk for violence directly stemming from the factors that pushed them to the margin.  By not allowing a 'place' - however defined and implemented - for marginal activities society, and the state of which it is a reflection - is actively increasing the already higher risks and therefore the actuality of the violence.  To meet this society needs to give more physical protection, lowering the risks, to the marginal while doing what is possible to move the person to greater coherence with society.

That is not going to be possible in every individual case.

So what?  

Murder is murder and to knowingly allow the marginal to face the certain risk of death and do nothing about it when there are known solutions is morally loathsome.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 01:01:56 PM EST
Joan Smith in the Independent :

Years ago, during the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry, I interviewed a young woman in the red light district in Manchester who was covered in cuts and scratches after a client attacked her with a wire coat hanger; last week, when I took part in a discussion on a Dublin radio programme with a woman who works with prostitutes in Ireland, she said she routinely hears from women who have been beaten, raped and even gang-raped by clients.

In 1998, when the global sex trade was on a smaller scale and possibly less institutionally violent than it is today, research carried out in five countries showed that 73 per cent of prostitutes reported physical assault and 62 per cent had been raped; among the rape victims, between a third and a half had been raped on more than five separate occasions. The situation of women who work indoors is hardly better, especially since the influx of trafficked women from countries such as Moldova, Romania and Ukraine. A study carried out recently by the London School of Tropical Hygiene discovered that 95 per cent of trafficked women had experienced physical or sexual violence. Sixty per cent reported experiencing some form of violence before they were trafficked, demonstrating a cycle of abuse.



She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Dec 17th, 2006 at 03:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What you quote can be taken as countering your point about where the problem lies. Trafficking women and 'breaking' them is crucial to (European) prostitution, but is itself no 'marginal activity', but a criminal industry, one bent on profit and growth to boot. As you quote, the situation of women working indoors (women supposedly with minimal protection) is hardly better. And as the Cologne example shows, offering good protection won't be used by the overwhelming majority for various reasons. I'd say prostitution in general cannot be separated from criminality (even if single prostitutes could get into 'normalised' situations).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Dec 17th, 2006 at 05:13:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Swedish model has been a complete failure from the view of the prostitutes, who regularly rage against it. This because it has driven prostitution underground and made if far more dangerous and more influenced by sex slavery and imported women.

It has been a success in the way that prostitutes don't ruin the aestetics of the Stockholm. See no evil...

Of course, the upper middle class marxist feminazi idelogues love it.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 06:51:19 PM EST
Apart from aestetics, it has also been succesfull in using the moral power of the concept of "illegal" to change societal norms about prostitution. I think the debate of boycotting the soccer championships would have looked completedly different just ten years ago (if it had existed at all). I did not see one smug remark about "boys will be boys" anywhere. And judging from the debate before the illegalisation moral norms appeared to be the prime objective.

The Swedish model has been a complete failure from the view of the prostitutes

Has it? I am not aware of any serious research into the effects. Do you have any links?

, who regularly rage against it

Where have they raged about it? I have only seen white upper middle class male neoliberals idelogues rage that this is the case. The views and experiences of people who has sold sex I find lacking from the debate now as well as before the illegalisation.

To sum up my point of view: The "Swedish model" is not about the safety of people doing prostitution, it is about morals. And the debate features two groups trying to push their morals on society. In one corner you have the marxist feminists (which is what I suppose you refer to, as I am unaware of any selfdescribed "feminazis" (actually, I have not seen this term used outside of patriarchal male discourse, would you care too give a definition?)) and in the other the neoliberals (in the european sense). Both pushing their view of what prostitution means for society. Limited agency versus rational choice. System of domination versus freeing the individual. Most other groups keep out of the debate, including people who confess any experiences of prostitution (except for some cases, but then mostly in either sides magazines or papers, where you can supposed they would not have been published had they not supported respective sides position).

I am not surprised that this is the case considering that prostitution has very strong connections with marginalisation in our cultures (or our culture, depending on definitions). I you are not in a marginalised group you are probably not doing prostitution. If you are in a marginalised group, policy is something done to you, not by you.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 14th, 2006 at 07:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The views and experiences of people who has sold sex I find lacking from the debate now as well as before the illegalisation.

To Starvid's credit, Someone posted just such a quote on ET a few months ago, from some Swedish prostitute attending a world prostitutes' congress somewhere in Asia. But I think it is still wrong. From what Sassafras pointed out in several comments, it is obvious to me that 'illegal' sex trafficking would have existed anyway, in fact I suspect it would have ran up even bigger. The system doesn't criminalise the prostitutes but the customers. And I wonder whether there have been any studies into a deterrence effect.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 03:02:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I should have read Sassafras's diary in full -- there are the statistics.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 03:23:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The trouble with finding any worthwhile model for a country is that prostitution is actually a huge cross border, cross continent big money business. Unless huge changes in the world economic system and societal and gender norms occur there is no system that will protect the underclass most vulnerable. All that will happen is that the underclass changes in nature. Maybe it changes from being indigenous sex workers to immigrant workers or illegal immigrant workers, or just poorer workers. After all prostitution is a business and somebody will always be supplying something cheaper, or maybe more exciting. Sorry to sound pesimistic on this.
by observer393 on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 04:01:55 AM EST
After all prostitution is a business and somebody will always be supplying something cheaper, or maybe more exciting.

American Journalist Robert Jensen, writing about pornography, also stresses that "mainstream" pornography is getting more and more hardcore, i.e., more "exciting".  I quoted extensively from one of his articles in an old thread on pornography.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 04:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
@sassafras thank you

I will resist temptation and merely quote Agnes from a neighbouring thread:

So here's my theory: the more the event is drained of its original, genuine meaning and purpose, the greater marketing advantage to be extracted from it.
 and ask:  what does it mean to have the greatest marketing advantage extracted from our bodies and our sexuality?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 02:29:36 PM EST
Everyone seems to think that prostitution is inevitable, but prostitution is not a necessity. It is an act of violence by the very source of its demand, or it wouldn´t require money:  Sex is a natural act among adults.

The demand is created by human beings too inadequate to create natural, mutual relationship(s) to satisfy their needs, and/or masturbate, and/or control a sexual need for a period of time.  I have never heard of any death caused by lack of sex in my life.

As to the supply by prostitutes, it comes from extreme necessity, maybe a previous drug addiction and lack of other job possibilities.  I have never heard an adolescent say "I want to become a prostitute".

Instant gratification for consumer mentalities?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 08:11:01 PM EST
The demand is created by human beings too inadequate to create natural, mutual relationship(s) to satisfy their needs, and/or masturbate, and/or control a sexual need for a period of time.

Moral frameworks are not useful for creating policy and most certainly not as a way to understand human behavior. That kind of thinking should be isolated to fundies.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 at 10:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My comment tries to address the conflicting human behaviors, not morals.  Natural, social frameworks that degenerate into violent human behaviors, no matter how overanalyzed.

It takes time to develop human relationships, but in prostitution, money saves time...

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sat Dec 16th, 2006 at 07:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's worse, prostitutes "imported" from Eastern Europe (and I guess Africa too) are often tricked or kidnapped girls whose will is broken in industrial fashion with rape, violence, taking away papers and money, and 'demonstrating' that police is corrupt (=there is no one to turn to).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Dec 16th, 2006 at 08:11:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is the case in Spain and it seems every couple of months we hear of a ring broken up that 1) is from Eastern Europe, but always has a Spaniard involved, 2) it is criminally violent, 3) operates in 2 or more cities.

This proves (there is corruption?) the security breach at the Northern Spanish border, which is minor news because the rafts-of-death coming from Africa are so shocking.

There was a proposed legalization of prostitution in Catalunya, by a female pol. no less, that I don´t know if it passed.

It is hard to believe that around 1968 I heard the term "white trade" for the first time and Spain was then a source of women for... Arab countries?  (Oil-rich Arabs were buying out the south coast at the time.)

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Dec 17th, 2006 at 08:23:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the sixties to eighties, blonde female visitors to Turkey were warned by the tourist office to watch out for themselves. Apparently with good reason. I know someone who went there in a group a few decades ago, and one blonde female member of the group disappeared in Istambul.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Dec 17th, 2006 at 09:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The demand is created by human beings too inadequate to create natural, mutual relationship(s) to satisfy their needs, and/or masturbate, and/or control a sexual need for a period of time.

I'm unconvinced that sex is the only dynamic.  Somewhere when researching this I found the claim that the 'typical' client is 35-55 years old and has, or has had, a wife or girlfriend.

As a student, I lived on the edge of the red light district, and my own impression was that the typical kerb-crawler is 35, normal looking and in a company car.

I don't think prostitutes are the only option for sex for these men.  Which means that they must be paying for something else.

by Sassafras on Sat Dec 16th, 2006 at 04:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree about the dynamic and I sense "power, control, etc" has a lot to do with it, which makes it violence to me.  When sex becomes a commodity, or a convenience, it is truly de-meaning its value and the parties are not equals.

You are right also about the options and I was implying more-than-one-relationship possibilities, as long as it´s personal and not business.  The consequences are not ideal either, but at least it is social.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sat Dec 16th, 2006 at 06:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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